Supernatural Music Extravaganza: Series Finale - Carry On My Wayward Song (Rights)

Welcome to the series finale of Supernatural Music Extravaganza! In this episode, the Denim Wrapped Nightmares and In Defense of Fandom crews tackle the eternal question: "Why does my Supernatural sound different on {insert name of streaming platform}?!" Spoiler alert: blame capitalism!

The hosts explain the wild world of music licensing, from the show's early "oops, we only bought DVD rights" days to the later "give us your songs FOREVER" era. Turns out those iconic needle drops cost serious upfront cash, which is why Season 1 Dean might be rocking out to "Generic Rock Song #4" instead of AC/DC. RIP original soundtrack, we hardly knew ye (unless you own the DVD).

Featuring insights from Jensen Ackles on budget woes, a deep dive into why physical media matters, and heartfelt tributes to favorite Supernatural needle drops—from "Heat of the Moment" torture to Bob Seger brotherhood feels. Plus: important intel on where to snag those Radio Company vinyls before they're gone again.

The moral of the story? Buy the Blu-rays. Buy the CDs. Stream responsibly. Go to the shows. And never trust a tinkerbell.

Click here to learn more about music supervision and Alexandra Patsavas.

Catchup on Supernatural Music Extravaganza episodes, shop, and find playlists at linktr.ee/SPN20.

Thank you for taking this SPN Family musical journey with us! Please continue to follow Denim-wrapped Nightmares and In Defense of Fandom. Next up, Berly and LA will discuss the lore, the gore, and what they adore about Supernatural, season 9, while Sadie takes a comprehensive look at fandom conventions. We hope to see you in 2026!

Special thanks to Steve Hein, producer of the hit podcast, Supernatural Then and Now, for permission to include part of their conversation with Phil Sgriccia. Find their full discussion at podcasts.apple.com/ec/podcast/bloody-mary-featuring-producer-director-phil-sgriccia/id1605385289?i=1000551011238.

Special thanks to our "favorite needle drop" contributors: Kera Styler, Nessa Colt, Lauren from Hops Geek News, Lynn from SPN 'Verse, Jordan, Liz, Iggy, Nerdy Tavern, and Waleed from the Wally Verse.

Special thanks to our music contributors: Richard Cummins (richardcummins.bandcamp.com/music), Gil McKinney (music.apple.com/us/artist/gil-mckinney/315769280), The Station Breaks (music.apple.com/us/artist/the-station-breaks/1181728798), Briana Buckmaster and Billy Moran (music.apple.com/us/album/carry-on-wayward-son-single/1487727442).

Transcript

Sadie Witkowski: 0:00

Don't you cry no more! Welcome to the series finale of the Denim Repped Nightmares and Indefensive Fandom Podcast Crossover. Supernatural Music Extravaganza. In case you forgot, I'm Sadie, and in this collaboration, we looked at music in the show, music inspired by the show, and music created by actors, cast, and crew. We interviewed 20 musicians from the Supernatural family. And believe it or not, there were two more people who we hope to interview for this anniversary special. But it just wasn't meant to be. Who are they and what was the episode topic, you ask? Well, we wanted to talk about music licensing with executive producer Phil Sagrisha and music supervisor Alexandra Pat Savas. I'll let LA tell you more about them.

LA: 0:50

Phil Sagrisha is a director, producer, and editor known for his work on Amazon's The Boys and Gen V, Peacock's Twisted Metal, and 14 seasons as executive producer and director on Supernatural. Beyond television, he's produced music projects including Petunia and the Vipers, acclaimed album, recorded at Hollywood's Sound Factory with three-time Grammy-winning engineers. His extensive editing background and keen ear for music have made him a unique voice in both film and music production. Here is a clip of Phil talking about licensing on Supernatural Then and Now season one episode Bloody Berry.

Phil Sgriccia : 1:31

So what happened was we only had, and we we didn't know this. Eric didn't know it, I didn't know it, Bob Singer didn't know it. We only had rights to the music in year one for DVDs and television broadcast. But anything that was streaming and later got redone. We had Inagata Davida in the first year, we had all this stuff, beautiful classic rock, Blue Oyster cult, and it was all gone. So if you buy I think it's on iTunes, if you buy the iTunes version, it's not there, but if you buy the DVD, it is there. So that's what happened in year one. It was a new thing.

LA: 2:21

Alexandra Pet Savis is one of television's most influential music supervisors. She founded Chopshop Music Supervision in 1998 and in 2020 joined Netflix as director of music creative and production for original series. During her career, Pat Savis has worked on over 100 films and TV series and earned three Grammy nominations plus an Emmy nomination. She's credited with revitalizing the relationship between television and music promotion, proving that the right song in the right moment can transform both a scene and an artist's career. We've included a 2021 Gold Derby interview with Alexandra in the show notes. Check it out. Back to you, Sadie.

Sadie Witkowski: 3:03

We weren't planning to cover this topic without these guests, but decided was worth addressing. As of Monday, December 22nd, 2025, Peacock became the new streaming home of Supernatural in the US. With online discussions swirling about whether the original music has returned, we want to help set the record straight. Before Burley breaks it all down, let's revisit what Jensen Accles had to say about licensed music at Creation's Austin Con last August when I asked about Supernatural's music legacy.

Jensen Ackles: 3:39

I wish we had the budget to have all of the music cues that we wanted because there was so there was a lot written into the script that we couldn't afford. Because at the end of the day, like you know, these some some of these really famous songs that we wanted would have been amazing. But they just, you know, we we had a budget and we had to keep doing it. Sometimes it was too expensive to buy the songs. So when we did buy songs, and when you heard those needle drops on some of those iconic moments, you know that we spent a lot of money for this. And it was very important uh to have those. And we would have loved to have had many, many, many more. And I think it it it maybe would have added a little bit of extra uh saucer to an already uh you know already great project.

Berly: 4:30

Remember, while I, Burley, am a lovable leche, I am not an expert on music licensing. I wouldn't even say that I'm an expert Googler, but I put in work. And here's what I got. When Supernatural Season 1 was produced in 2005, they secured rights only for DVD and television broadcast. Streaming didn't exist as a major platform yet. Prior to streaming, many TV producers would choose limited licenses for broadcast TV only for roughly three to five years to lower costs and allow them to license more popular songs. When Supernatural moved to Netflix in 2012, these old limited license deals had to be renegotiated. Many iconic classic rock songs like ACDC's Highway to Hell from the Pilot and Blue Oyster Cult's Don't Fear the Reaper from Faith were replaced in the streaming version. The advent of streaming forced producers to insist on in perpuity. Nope. Perpetuity. Perpetuity. In perpetuity. There we go. Insist on in perpetuity or forever licenses, which require rights holders to relinquish future royalties in exchange for one-time payments. This represents a fundamental shift in music licensing economics. Where broadcast TV licenses were negotiated for limited terms at lower costs, streaming platforms demand perpetual rights, meaning significantly higher upfront payments. Rights holders now face the prospect of giving up all future revenue streams for a song's use in a show, which naturally commands premium pricing. Additionally, streaming represents global distribution rather than a regional broadcast, further driving up costs as territorial reach expands. Warner Brothers television owned Supernatural and was responsible for relicensing music for streaming. I've seen a lot of people be like, ah, fuck Netflix, they didn't pay for the songs or whatever. Warner Brothers was responsible for all of it. But they faced some obstacles, guys. Two big obstacles here. One, budget constraints. Classic rock is expensive, especially for streaming rights. And two, rights holder unwillingness. Because of that forever and all that other kind of stuff we just talked about, there were artists or estates who straight up refused to license music under that deal, or they demanded prohibitive prices, like just way out of budget. Warner Brothers kept what they could afford and replaced the rest. After learning from early seasons, producers secured comprehensive rights for later seasons, which retain their original soundtracks on streaming. So, in conclusion, y'all might remember me asking this question more than once during this series. We have an answer. That's most likely why there's a noticeable decline in needle drops after season five. Due to that in perpetuity requirement, available songs decreased. What was available cost significantly more, and the budget no longer covered more than a song here and there in future episodes. They literally had to drop how many needle drops there were. It wasn't the showrunners' fault, it wasn't anybody's fault, it was just the cost of streaming. Long story short, no. The original music in earlier seasons did not return because of the move to Peacock. And it's very unlikely to return if it moves to another streaming platform either. Supernatural's situation demonstrates why owning DVDs or Blu-rays of beloved content is worthwhile. Streaming content changes without notice, music gets replaced, scenes edited, episodes removed, all while you pay subscription fees. Licensing is temporary, shows vanish from platforms when agreements expire, and may return altered or not at all. And true ownership. Physical media provides permanent access, superior quality, and bonus features, independent of internet connectivity, subscription fees, or corporate negotiations. Season one of Supernatural with its original soundtrack still exists, but only on DVD and Blu-ray. You can check to see if your local library has it available. But for shows, films, books, and music, physical media preserves the original creative vision exactly as intended. You can check out our link tree, SPN20, for links to CDs, records, and more.

Kera Styler (KStyles Photos): 9:37

Hi, I'm Kira from K-Styles Photos. My all-time favorite needle drop in Supernatural is Night Moves by Bob Seeger and the Silver Bullet Band in the episode Baby. The song helped create such a beautiful moment between the brothers and actors too. It blurred the lines a bit and gave fans a chance to share an intimate moment between two human beings. For me, that moment resembles everything the show is about support, love, patience, laughter, and family. And I cried the first time I watched it, and it has become my forever feel good moment.

Nessa Colt: 10:08

Hi, I'm Nessa Colt, and one of my favorite needle drops in Supernatural is Heat of the Moment in Mystery Spot. What I love about it is how unapologetically cheerful it is in the middle of something that's actually pretty horrifying. Dean keeps dying, Sam keeps relieving it, and instead of the show telling you how to feel or even giving us time to process it, the song just keeps restarting. And somehow it fits. Especially for Gabriel. It makes everything hurt and be funnier at the same time. It also teaches you the rules of the episode instantly. One note, and you already know exactly where you are. The song doesn't just play in the episode, it becomes the episode. And now, funny story, I even said it as Marine Tone on my best friend's phone. She's a first-time watcher. And that was way before she got to the episode. So I called her constantly and she heard it constantly. And when she finally saw the episode, she just texted me, You did not do that to me. So yeah, it's not just a supernatural needle drop. I needle dropped my best friend. And even before that, it was one of my favorites. So that's my pick. Thank you guys for having me.

Lauren (Hops Geek News): 11:15

This is Lauren Half of the Geek slash pop culture themed podcast, HopsGeek News, who loves supernatural and craft beer. My all-time favorite supernatural needle drop is from season two and Night Shifter with the Oh so perfect Renegade by Sticks. However, that one is rightfully very popular, so I'm actually gonna go with the season 14 finale, God Was Never on Your Side by Motorhead. This song not only captured the previous 14 seasons in a way that really only Chuck himself knew up until this point, it also had the chorus kick off right as all hell begins to break loose, and Cass, Sam, and Dean are kind of just looking around like, what do we do now? And it perfectly set up the 15th and final season of Supernatural. And for me, as a supernatural late bloomer, I didn't start watching live until the 12th season, so watching this live, knowing I'd have to wait months for the next episode for a season that would end all of it, uh, made it all that much more awesome of a needle drop. So that's what I got. Season 14 finale. Cheers.

Lynn (SPN Verse): 12:13

Hi y'all, this is Lynn from the SPN verse. My personal favorite needle drop from the show is Space Odyssey by David Bowie, and clap your hands if you believe. I absolutely love what they did with this piece of music, and how perfectly it was integrated into the storytelling, visually and sonically. Initially, you only hear Bowie's voice over a low hum fading in. To recognize the music, you have to have the sound turned up to a certain level before you even realize you're hearing Bowie's voice. And then the sizzles as it starts to get static, the lights flicker out, and Dean's, oh no. Then the exterior light comes up through the haze as though he's about to experience another induction, and his mild panic with not again. And then the door flies open, the tinkerbell clobbers him, and on contact, the music kicks in, and it all feels like it could be an alien occurrence right up to that exact moment. And you know, audio becoming louder and louder as the battle continues until it feels almost orchestral in conjunction with the lighting and the eddy thing and the fight choreography, and then the tinkerbell ending up in the microwave going splack! And then the song just falls off with a cold end, and you have a couple seconds before you hear the microwave ding and cut to commercial. The whole thing is totally exquisite to me. That they used a song about a spaceman, written and performed by one of the most legendary rock performers and musicians of all time, while telling a narrative that led us to think we were dealing with spacemen to begin with, just as they were giving us the first hints of it being fairies, is so perfectly true to the production of the show, and one of the big reasons I'm such a supernatural fan.

Jordan: 14:01

I'm Jordan, I'm from Ireland, and my favourite needle drop would have to be in the episode baby, Bob Zego's Nightmares. It just puts me in the best mood ever. Whenever I'm feeling down or in the car or driving anywhere, it just feels like uh coming home from the beach with your best friends. Not that I get the greatest of beach weather. But thanks for the podcast. Love you all. Bye.

Liz (Jackles Fan): 14:28

Hi, my name is Liz. Um, aka Shackles fan, and my favorite needle drop is Knocking on Heaven's Door by Bob Dylan in um season four, episode 10, Heaven and Hell, because Dean's Heaven was a happy July 4th moment with Sam, and it was a perfect song for that. Best one of the best moments on the show, in my opinion.

Iggy (The Frying Pan Prince): 14:52

This is Ichi from Instagram, and if I had to choose my favorite pin drop in Supernatural, it would be the iconic scene of Jensen and the Impala singing Eye of the Tiger or lip syncing to Eye of the Tiger. Absolutely amazing. The performance. I love how we all still remember it, even if it's from a blooper. So that's probably my favorite moment.

Nerdy Tavern : 15:16

Hey, I'm Nerdy Tavern, and one of my favorite needle drop moments from Supernatural is in season one when they use the song Don't Fear the Reaper in the episode Faith. It's one of my favorites because I can't imagine a better way of using this song. Even though it's soft and it's uplifting, it's also bone-chilling and terrifying as you watch the Reaper hunting down this jogger, and you hear in the background Sam and Dean talking about how Reapers are the only ones with this power.

Waleed (The Wally Verse): 15:46

Hey everybody, this is the Wally verse, and my favorite needle drop in Supernatural has to be night moves. I mean, Dean teasing Sam after he has a one-night stand in the back of the Impala just suggests that this is something that goes on before. Sam singing the song, switching the lyrics into my brother's 67 Chevy Impala, perfect.

LA: 16:11

Thank you to all of our guests and participants for their contribution to this special collaboration. If you hope to attend future music events with the SP and family, there will be multiple opportunities in 2026. In addition to Creations Entertainment's Friday night karaoke and Saturday night special, you can see Rob, Rich, Billy, and Jason at the heist in Bowling Green, Virginia on Monday, February 2nd. Also, mark your calendar for Loud and Swain at Mercury Lounge in New York City on Friday, February 20th. Sweeney's Station Saloon in Philly on Saturday, February 21st, and Valley Bar in Phoenix on Friday, March 27th. My birthday.

Sadie Witkowski: 16:59

Speaking of live shows, we were asked what are the multiple SPN family bands that Rob and Jason would potentially ask to perform in their aspirational music festival. Let's start with acts we featured in our previous episodes. In order, that would be Billy Moran, Loud and Swain with Rob with Rob Benedict, Billy Moran, Mike Borja, and Steve Norton, Rob Benedict, Ghost Tiger and Friends with Ben Edland, Raina Roberts, Radio Company with Jensen Accles and Steve Carlson, the Scott Sisters, Jason Manns, Brianna Buckmaster, Lisa Barry, and Dick Jr. and the Volunteers with Richard Spade Jr., Billy Moran, Emma Fitzpatrick, and Mark Shepard.

Berly: 17:47

Y'all know I'm always gonna make it to a Dick Jr. and the Volunteers show. I'm gonna show up for that dick. But it is like a bucket list item of mine. I wanna see a live ghost tiger show. So bad. So bad.

Sadie Witkowski: 18:05

I want to go. I want to be the weird groupie who dresses like also as a tiger. Oh my god, maybe I'll do a cheetah, we'll go cheetah girls.

Berly: 18:13

I'll do my hair real big and be a lion. Yes. Oh my god, if we do this, we'll all be different cats. I want to go so bad. So bad. It is like, and I've heard good. I've never seen, I've seen radio company perform at like Saturday night special, but I've never been to like a radio company concert. So what was that like, Sadie?

Sadie Witkowski: 18:32

They they really do put on a show. It helps that the audience is already so game and forgiving. And I think that helps like assuage everyone's nerves. Because when I think about that Nashville show, I was like, oh Jensen, honey, you look nervous. Um, but like they really do, and they, you know, Steve knows so many incredible local musicians. So when they play in Austin, the backing band, like they should have their own set because the the like the what was it? They brought in people, I think, from Austin to Nashville, and they were incredible. Um, vocalists, and there was a trombone and a trumpet and a sax player. And I was just like, oh my god, tell me more about these people. But wait, there's more. Here are some acts who were possibly mentioned, but we didn't get a chance to cover in detail. So Tricky MC with Billy Moran, Paul Corella, and occasionally Mark Shepard, Station Breaks with Rob Benedict, Jason Manns, and Billy Moran, Kim Rhodes, who played Sheriff Jody Mills, Gil McKinney, who played Henry Winchester, Richard Cummins, who provided Supernatural with the picture cars, aka versions of baby, Jeffrey Vincent Paris, who played Asmodeus, and just released his first album with Jason Mann's Carolyn County Record Company within the past few months. And finally, Emma Fitzpatrick, Steve Carlson, and Paul Carella, who were not on the show but who performed with most everyone and occasionally make appearances at the conventions. I call that a really full roster, but I bet there's even more. I mean, Jake Abel, who played Adam Milligan on the show, has a mean cowbell on Saturday Night Special Stage. Think he'll make a set list. And of course, we can't forget Quattro Formagia, which would be Rob Benedict, Jensen Accles, Jason Manns, and who's the fourth? Why is my brain blanking? Oh my god, I'm gonna shoot you.

Berly: 20:26

Who are you forgetting, girl? Oh, and Richard. How dare you? How dare you?

LA: 20:34

I like how she just said, oh, and Richard.

Sadie Witkowski: 20:37

And that guy. And let's not forget Quattro Fromaggio, which is Richard Spate Jr., Rob Benedict, Jensen Accles, and Jason Manns, who apparently just do this when they go to Jib in Italy. I've yet to see a US show.

Berly: 20:53

Speaking of limited runs, maybe the Impalas would reunite for a festival performance. Ready that saxophone creaser. I want to see it.

LA: 21:02

Uh or what about the elastic waistbands? I hear they're making a comeback.

Berly: 21:07

They're making a snap back. Get it? Because elastic. All right, ladies. What are your top three notables? Favorite episode, favorite guest, something that just stuck in your brain that one of our guests said. Whatever.

Sadie Witkowski: 21:27

Ooh, let's do one each, two each, three each. That way we get some time to think in between.

Berly: 21:32

Okay, okay. Um, I can have a top of mind because it was our last interview. I loved hearing the karaoke revolution story with the, you know, we'll never do it again, we'll never do it. And so we moved the chairs. Like, I loved that story.

Sadie Witkowski: 21:51

Oh my God, that was so funny. I think one of my like my top um surprise get was when we managed to actually chat with Raina because she was just like a total sweetheart and she had so many great stories and was so game to just nerd out with us and talk about all the other fandoms she's also a part of. And I was like, oh my god, how do I make you my best friend? I can't move to Nashville. That's another act I'd really like to see live.

Berly: 22:15

100%. She I follow her Instagram and it looks like she can put on a show. I would like to see her live too. I could say anything. Yeah, just be just anything that we did during this special that you liked.

LA: 22:26

Um, I liked the Scott Sisters, and this is probably just because I'm jealous that I didn't have it growing up, but how they said that the music was forced on them growing up when they were younger. And I was like, I wish I had had that because my parents never really like listened to music growing up, so I just had to find music on my own. Um, but I thought it was funny the way she said that because I was like, man, I would have loved that.

Berly: 22:49

Anytime I hear somebody saying, like, oh, well, my parents made me learn piano, I'm like, I wish mine like made me do it. Another thing that stuck out, you know, speaking of learning an instrument, I might be stealing one from you, Sadie. But whenever Ben Edlin just randomly was like, Well, I'm also trained on the recorder.

Sadie Witkowski: 23:10

It was so serious that it took me so long to realize that this was like kind of a bit and also kind of real. I oh my god.

Berly: 23:18

I died. The flashbacks, the flashbacks I got to the recorder concerts and all of that kind of stuff. That was that was a fun little moment.

Sadie Witkowski: 23:28

I mean, I also, okay, if we're gonna go all the way back. Our our very first interview we did was with Billy Moran, and he was, we didn't have a full list ready. The butthole were like, tell us some crazy stories. Like, well, you know, there's like the butthole in the car. We're like, what are you talking about, sir? What do you mean?

Berly: 23:47

Yeah. Oh my god, that was that was random. And that was like, oh, that was not where I thought we were going. But yes, please tell us more about your butthole. Great story.

LA: 23:58

Um, well, I was gonna say ability, but I'll say um I really like the format with the artist on artists, how they kind of interviewed each other. I I I enjoyed that.

Berly: 24:10

I wish we could have done that with Chris and Jay. The idea hadn't struck me yet uh that that was something we could do rather than trying to squeeze two different interviews into an episode. Let's just have them interview each other. Like that idea hadn't really hit me yet whenever we had Chris and Jay. But that would have been a fun conversation to eavesdrop on the two of them talking about everything. But I agree. I enjoyed that format. Was that round two? Are we on round two? That was round two. It was round two. One more each, one more each. Um, so this is gonna be a shocking one because I fucking hate editing. I hate it so much. But I really enjoyed editing the fan artist episode, putting together all five of those interviews, getting their songs in there, getting that right around the hour mark. I think it went like hour 15 minutes, maybe. I was like really impressed with myself. And it was just, I really enjoyed editing that one. And I don't normally like editing, but that was that was a fun one. And I felt a really big sense of accomplishment when that was done. And it was a fun listen. That that episode was fun to listen to. I enjoyed that one.

Sadie Witkowski: 25:27

I feel like that's fun editing because it's layering. You're like, oh, I get to include your music, and like, oh, you have this beautiful gem of a comment you made that I can't wait to drop in there that people are gonna really think about. Like, you kind of stole mine because I was gonna say that episode too, because it's it's nearly. Yeah, you helped me with that one.

Berly: 25:43

You also helped me uh kind of siphon through the siphon through? No, filter through the transcripts and find those great little tidbits that each of our guests gave us because we had we had to get it narrowed down.

Sadie Witkowski: 25:57

I didn't sorry, I stole that. The series could have been like triple the amount of time if we didn't edit anything easily, easily. Yeah. Um, okay, well, then I'm gonna do for my final notable. I really like that we included Chris Schmelke because he is not like like he's a musician, but he's not who you think of when you think of SPN music, but also how important music is to set the world for him in the photo room and to get people comfortable and to like build this like both intimacy and party vibe. I just it made me think a lot differently about how we kind of curate our spaces, even just using auditory cues. Like I really appreciated that perspective. LA, what's your last one?

LA: 26:37

Since I wasn't really there for the interviews, I just want to say I really love Sadie and Burley's interviewing. You got you guys really did it like a beautiful job.

Berly: 26:50

I mean, luckily we had some very uh loquacious guests, and a lot of times we didn't have to ask much. We just had to kind of give them a quick prompt and sit back and listen to the stories.

Sadie Witkowski: 27:02

Yes, some of the easiest interviews we've ever done. I was like music, and they're like, I have thoughts. Okay.

Berly: 27:09

This was fun though. This was fun. I learned a lot. The transcript trick that like saved my life with the Richard and Mark editing. That's not something I've ever done. Because uh I learned how to edit as a dance teacher. So it was always audio, just listening to the cut, listening for the eight count. If I cut it here and cut it to there, it's gonna flow. Like, so I've always done it just auditorily.

Sadie Witkowski: 27:34

And but that's different when you have like a winding discursive conversation. You're like, cut this loop out. We don't need this bit, stick it here.

Berly: 27:40

Like, which I've done, which I've had to do, and like damn near pulled my hair out or would go crazy or would text, oh my god, I've been working on this episode for like six hours, you know. So that yeah, the transcript trick, that's that's a huge win for me, uh, as far as learning something as to how other people manage their stuff and do their stuff.

Sadie Witkowski: 28:02

And I think everybody does it kind of differently. This was good for me because I was like, oh my god, how did you get this person? I emailed them once and they've never got back. Sales, sales, remember?

Berly: 28:10

Like literally, my job is to get an answer. If the answer is no, okay. But my job is to get an answer.

Sadie Witkowski: 28:17

I think you're so right about the physical media thing. We've my husband and I've been talking about that a lot lately of just like, yeah, whole, I think it was Star Trek Prodigy got pulled completely from streaming. There have been shows that like have been created and then totally pulled, and if they were never made into DVD, they're gone. Unless you know somebody who like screen recorded or something, you can't ever get those back. And it's like if you love a show, you might you might want some kind of physical copy of it.

Berly: 28:41

Even if you purchase it, if it's digital, it's a license agreement change away from them deciding that you have to pay for it again. You know, it's just payment and payment and payment. And I gotta say it, with things getting banned, physical media, I feel like in this day and age, it's even more important. I definitely kick myself for all of the CDs and DVDs that I took to movie trading company and sold because I was decluttering and going digital. And now I look back and I'm like, oh man. Like I had dogma, I had the fall, I had all these things. Yeah, the and when I say the fall, I'm talking the one with Lee Pace. Yes, the Lee Pace one. I'm obsessed with that movie. It's beautiful. I bought it again, but it was like 50 bucks for the DVD.

Sadie Witkowski: 29:30

Ugh. Yeah, my parents are uh doing extensive house renovation work right now, which meant for the holidays when I went home to see them. They were like, Do you want this? Do you want this? Do you want this? And a lot of it was this huge stack of DVDs. And I was like, oh hell yeah. So I've got a bunch of like old anime series that are hard to find now. I've got, I felt like we have Band of Brothers, the box set and like the metal tin. I gave I let my brother keep that one. He's the World War II nerd. Um, but like we also had VHSs, and some of them are like one of them is a show from like the 1960s called Sky King, maybe the 70s. It was like created to get people into um recreational flying. And like we used to watch it all the time. And I'm like, I don't know that you can find this anywhere, but it's only on VHS.

Berly: 30:16

Also, just there's something to be said of just like I can read something on a tablet or my phone or whatever, but I am somebody who just likes holding a book. And there's also something to be said of like sitting down and going through your DVDs, deciding what you want to watch, or taking that record out of the sleeve and putting it on the record player and putting that needle down. Like there's just something about that. Uh, that you can't quite scratch that itch with a scroll. Yeah. So yeah, I'm a big advocate for physical media. And this is just an example of why, you know, particularly for media that means something to you, that investing in having that physical media uh might be worth your while.

LA: 31:03

All right.

Berly: 31:06

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's a good plug. So if you buy any of the CDs from uh, you know, Dick Jr. and the Volunteers, Jason Manns, Rob Benedict, Louden Swain, and then you go to a convention, if you take that physical media with you, a lot of them will autograph it. Speaking of physical media at conventions, Anna of Music Row has informed me that radio company vinyls are back in. You can purchase them at the vendor's booth on Music Row, or you can buy them online. Also, Radio Company Volume 1 and Volume 2 CDs are sold out online, but they do still have them at the vendor's booth. So visit Music Row when you attend a creation entertainment convention. So yeah, so this is wrapped. So what's next for denim wrapped nightmares and In Defense of Fandom? Well, for Denim Wrapped Nightmares, we are going into season nine of Supernatural. And that will premiere here in a few weeks. We haven't actually started recording just yet, so we don't have an exact date in mind. Uh, but it'll definitely be here in a few weeks that season nine will be coming out. What about you, Sadie? What's going on with Indefensive Fandom?

Sadie Witkowski: 32:31

Yeah, similarly, Indefensive Fandom will have a short little hiatus before starting the new season, which is going to be all about conventions and convention culture. So that'll be dropping sometime in 2026, ideally in the spring, but we shall see. And I'm really excited for it. I really want to get deep into um the weird nerdiness of being in person with other weird nerds and the joy and awkwardness and just all of it. I'm so excited.

Berly: 32:59

That's gonna be fun. Back to our regularly scheduled programming. Uh, we look forward to seeing our listeners for those episodes. If this collaboration is the first time that you've been introduced either to Denim Wrapped Nightmares or In Defense of Fandom, we hope that you will follow our podcasts for our future episodes and go binge our back catalog while you're at it. Now for the show's credits. This season is a co-production between Denim Wrapped Nightmares and In Defense of Fandom.

Sadie Witkowski: 33:36

Cover art for In Defense of Fandom was designed by Liz Hand.

Berly: 33:41

Cover art for Denim Wrapped Nightmares was designed by Rain Zielman.

Sadie Witkowski: 33:47

Music featured in this episode was by Richard Cummins, Gil McKinney, The Station Brakes, Brianna Buckmaster, and Billy Moran. See links to their music and more in the show notes.

LA: 33:59

If you've enjoyed this collaboration we want to know, send us a message on Instagram or Twitter. We love hearing from you.

Sadie Witkowski: 34:06

And while you're at it, make sure you're subscribed to both shows so you never miss an episode.

Berly: 34:11

Also, a review on Apple Podcasts wouldn't hurt either.

LA: 34:17

Thank you all for listening.