Supernatural Music Extravaganza: Convention Carolers - Rob Benedict & Jason Manns Unwrapped

Have a Holly Jolly Christmas... with Denim-wrapped Nightmares, In Defense of Fandom, and two guys talking about their musical journey!

In this first installment of the Supernatural Music Extravaganza's Artist on Artist series (aka "SPNception"), Rob Benedict and Jason Manns unwrap the gift that keeps on giving: their unlikely musical empire built on the back of a TV show about two guys with shotguns. Consider this your Christmas present from the Supernatural music family!

Jason reflects on those early convention days when he'd perform for crowds wondering "Who's the big guy?" (spoiler: he wasn't on the show), while Rob reminisces about Louden Swain playing to literally one person at 12:30 AM. They share stories about that pivotal 2011 European tour that almost didn't happen because ticket sales were... let's say "intimate," and how Saturday Night Special evolved from a disjointed variety show featuring Misha's dog tricks to the concert experience it is today.

The duo discusses their journey from LA bars where friends were too busy catching up to actually listen, to convention stages where you could hear a pin drop during ballads. They bond over the shared experience of finally being able to call themselves musicians without feeling like imposters, the terror of that first fan convention (spoiler: the fans are VERY forgiving), and their continued shock that 20 years later, 60% of convention audiences are still brand new fans.

Plus: How Jason met Jensen at a Christmas party (yes, really—the holiday spirit was strong even back then!), why Rob's mom thinks Jason is Jason Mraz, and dreams of a Supernatural music festival featuring approximately 45 bands with only six actual people.

Special thanks to Jason for allowing us to feature a couple of tracks, which, thematically, are songs from his Christmas with Friends album. Find the CD, vinyl, and more at https://cacoreco.com/.

Catchup on Supernatural Music Extravaganza episodes and find playlists at https://linktr.ee/SPN20

Follow Denim-wrapped Nightmares (if you're not already) and turn on notifications for new episodes. Find and follow In Defense of Fandom at https://www.geekscape.net/in-defense-of-fandom.

Transcript

LA: 0:00

Welcome back to Denim Wrapped Nightmares and in Defense of Fandom Podcast Crossover, supernatural music extravaganza. Extravaganza. Whichever way you like to say. In this collaboration series, we're looking at music in the show, music inspired by the show, and music created by actors, cast, and crew. Today's episode is the first in our Artist on Artist series. That's right, we're doing a series within a series, or SP Inception.

Berly: 0:31

SPN.

Sadie Witkowski: 0:33

SP Inception.

LA: 0:35

Inspired by Variety's Emmy-winning actors on actors interviews, we've paired up some of your favorite supernatural family members for intimate, unscripted conversations. Rather than traditional interview-led discussions, the pairs interview each other, exploring their musical backgrounds, memorable experiences, and their future aspirations. The result? Candid in-depth conversations between artists who genuinely understand and appreciate each other's work. Our first pairing features Rob Benedict and Jason Manns, two musicians celebrated for mentoring supernatural cast members through live performances and into the recording studio. Most of you will know Rob Benedict as the actor who played Chuck Shirley, or God, on Supernatural. As frontman of Latin Swain, he's released numerous albums and performed at fan conventions worldwide. Benedict has also pursued solo work, showcasing his versatility as a singer-songwriter. His dual career spans television, film, and music, making him a beloved figure in both the acting and music communities. Jason Manns is a singer-songwriter known for his soulful vocals and heartfelt lyrics. He has released multiple albums and EPs, including his popular Cover with Friends series featuring supernatural cast members. A longtime friend of Jensen Ackles, Mans had his song Vision featured in the show and has become a beloved fixture at fan conventions where his authentic storytelling and engaging stage presence have earned him a dedicated following. Now, let's eavesdrop on Robin Jason.

Jason Manns: 2:44

You know, back in the in the early days before Comic Con turned them cool.

Rob Benedict: 2:51

And you would do a you would do a solo show on like Saturday night or Friday.

Jason Manns: 2:55

I would, yeah, in uh in England, yeah. Yeah, I would do a show Saturday night. Um, you know, in the first one we ever did, we didn't really know what to expect. Jensen got up and sang a song with me, uh, Nervous is all get out. Uh it was pretty funny. You know, after he got up and sang, I think we sang Crazy Love, uh, it went viral, uh, which there wasn't even such a term back then, but you know, a lot of people saw it. Um, a lot of people got on their dial up modems and uh their friends, you know, they were invested because back then it it took them about a week to download that file. Um and uh I I just I would get invited to a bunch of the conventions, and sometimes it was a Saturday night show, but sometimes it was just kind of um you know a small show during the day or in the afternoon, or you know, they'd kind of fit it in where they had a spot or where they needed a spot, you know, because there wasn't even that many people doing them at that time. So they would try to find people almost to fill up space, uh almost like a variety show. So that that was kind of my initial introduction to music at a at a supernatural convention. You know, once I'd been doing that a little while, I I had met a bunch of you guys and realized that you know, a ton of the actors from the show or musical really enjoy it, don't do it that much, but they love it when they get the chance to do it. They're like excited to to sing.

Rob Benedict: 4:24

Um what was the timeline of that? Did you when you invited people to do Christmas uh with friends, was it before or after Saturday Night Special? Or at the same time? Like what were we doing that?

Jason Manns: 4:36

What year was the first S?

Rob Benedict: 4:39

I mean, fuck if I know 20 2012.

Jason Manns: 4:44

I want to say right in that pocket.

Rob Benedict: 4:46

Yeah. Right around that time is when we started going, like, oh man, Gil can sing, Brianna can sing. You know, everyone has this these musical abilities.

Jason Manns: 4:56

Yeah. And they love it. You know, they look for opportunities, they're excited to join in, you know, like you put a guitar in any green room, and people are gonna be late to their photo ops, you know, like it's everybody loves jumping in and jamming. Um and so, you know, I just called a bunch of you guys up and was like, hey, I'm gonna do this Christmas album thing. You wanna you want to jump in and sing a Christmas tune? And everybody, like, no hesitation. Everybody was like, I'm in. Yeah, that'd be super fun. Let's do it. Let's that'd be a blast. And you know, you remember, we did it in my in my the living room of my guest house, you know, my office. And uh yeah, my brother uh produced it. Um well, my brother engineered it, and he and I both kind of produced it. It was just super laid back. Um and had a blast. Uh and that was the first time I'd actually like produced. That was the first time I'd worked with someone, like I was the guy going, well, try it this way. Uh, what if we sped it up? Uh, that sounds a little low for you. What if we, you know, raise the pitch a little bit, put it in a different key, or you know, just what I I didn't even in my mind think of it as producing, I just thought of it as like being helpful, you know, trying to get people comfy and do the thing. Right. Um you know, because I I am mainly a singer in the sense that I I play guitar and I write and I do all that stuff, but I I think singing is kind of my um what I would say is the what I do better than I do the rest of the stuff, you know. Um I felt like my I was able to kind of go, oh well, that's hard because you're singing it like this. Or if you go into your head voice there, you know, you can do the falsetto or whatever. Um and I just I really found that I loved collaborating with artists in that way, which I'd never really done before. Um, so that was kind of the start of those for me. I just had a blast. I was like, all right, well that was fun, let's do another one. And then, you know, what five, six albums later. Um and so, you know, when we uh finished the cover albums, um there were a few people that I worked with that had either said something specifically about, hey, I really like this, or hey, I've been thinking about doing my own record, or just somebody that I was like, I think you have a record in you. I think you, you know, you know, some of it has to do with the way they interact with fans, some of it has to do with just their personality and the way that they um approach music. You know, but it you you're everybody's busy and doing a million things, and until they uh get kind of walked through the process by somebody, it all seems so t intimidating and impossible. You know, you you think well, yeah, I mean I jam with my buddies in my basement, but I mean a full record, I mean a full album, like 10 songs, like going into the studio recording it and doing all that stuff and putting it out, like it's it just seems so daunting. Um until you do it, you know, and then when you do it, it it's a lot of work, and it takes, you know, somebody that has some knowledge of the process to kind of help you uh get through it. Um but once you've done it, you're like, oh yeah, I can do that, I can do that again. That was fun. And and I I love unlocking that for people, you know, like it's really fun to just take people through that process and seeing them at the end with like an album. Like that that's a that's a lifelong work of art that that stays with you. You know what I mean? Like that's a um if you found out that your great grandfather recorded an album, it wouldn't care if it wouldn't matter if it sucked. I mean, all the all the better if it's amazing. Um but even if it wasn't that good, you'd be like, my great grandfather made it a record recorded an album. Like that's cool, you know. That's not not a lot of people do that in the grand scheme of things. Um and so to to have something like that under your belt is is an accomplishment. Um and so it's it's it's fun to be able to give that to people, you know.

Rob Benedict: 9:23

Yeah, um yeah, for me, I remember like at the beginning, um I remember I remember seeing you a couple times, you know, your do your solo show.

Jason Manns: 9:35

Um Yeah, well you and I I mean I was always I always loved when you guys were there, um, especially you, because I knew you were great. I knew you played music and you weren't just like a guy that likes to jump in, which I also love, but like somebody that I could ham a guitar to and walk off stage and go like get it, you know?

Rob Benedict: 9:57

Um yeah, I feel like like Yeah, I feel like like the emergence of your covers albums and of Saturday Night Special was like a conglomeration of all these things that were going on. Like, like there's that, like the first time we ever did uh Rome, it was it was you and me, and I opened up for you, and that was like one of the first times it was like I had my own little solo show because I was in this band for last the previous 20 years, and I it was rare that I just was by myself singing my songs, you know. Um, and I remember that, and yeah, I remember you gave me advice I think about to this day, where because I was like, I'm the same way where like I'm a vocalist more than I'm a good guitarist, and so I was nervous about remembering all the chords and shit, and you were like they they just they just focus on your voice, like the guitars, you can just be real quiet with the guitar and do a suggestion of a chord as long as you're hitting that note. That's what they're gonna be hearing. I think about that, but um and and everyone was there, like uh Steve Carlson came, was in the audience, Jensen was in the audience, Richard was in the audience. First time you and I ever did Hallelujah together, it was like a magical night. I was like, Oh, we we kind of have something here. So there was there was that, and then there was also uh Loudoin Swain was invited to play one of the conventions in LA because we were here and they didn't have to fly the band and stuff, and um and we did it, and that went really well. Richard stood in line afterwards and introduced himself to us. Like that's how early it was. We didn't know each other.

Jason Manns: 11:24

And he would do that now, but it he wasn't kidding then.

Rob Benedict: 11:28

Right, exactly. No, no, no. It was like for like he was very uh sincere and earnest, like waiting in line like a like a dutiful audience member. And I remember he was like genuinely impressed that the band was a band. And um, and then the band was invited to England, and you were in England, and we enraged a tour, and then we all went on a tour with you. That was like 2011, and that was kind of momentous, just you know, all these things were sort of happening. And then yeah, and then and then just sort of organically, this Saturday night special thing kind of came up because the band was asked to be the house band behind Richard hosting, and and we disguised ourselves as the elastic waistband because we thought that it'd be better than being loud in the swain because we weren't a cover band, which was a big mistake because then everyone thought we were the elastic waistband and that we wore wigs. And uh, but yeah, and then and then you know, I honestly I I credit like Jason Shepard and and Spate and myself, like the four of us kind of crafted Saturday Night Special, and you know, um Shepard and Spate kind of put on their sort of directors' hats, and you were like musical director, and we kind of you know got people encouraged people to sing. You know, people like Gil and Kim. I remember Kim early on, Kim didn't never sang on Saturday Night Special. Now that she's like one of the greatest hits of it. She never sang, she was nervous about singing, nervous about asking to sing, you know. And um same with Ruth, who doesn't sing anymore but used to, but that was a definitely like an encouraging people to to sing with us. Um but yeah, those early days were super fun because you were kind of led the way because you were, you know, you you chiseled the first stone.

Jason Manns: 13:10

Well, you know, it was so f fun when you guys got involved because I don't know if the people watching this will know this or not, but I was not on the show. Um which is always odd. Uh and I always make that joke when I do my panel or when I'm up there, and I'm like, if you haven't had the chance to lean over to someone next to you and go, Who's the big guy? Why is he who's what did he play on the show? Uh I didn't. Um they, you know, I I was lucky enough to have some music on the show, um, and you know, buddies with Jensen for a long time, but I always felt just thankful to be there because I was aware of the of the somewhat tenuous connection between me and the show. Um, and so I always just tried to, you know, add as much as I could to to the situation. Um, and and I was, you know, thankful to be there. But because I had that mentality, you know, it's difficult to do that and also demand things. Um, and so you you know better than anyone uh what that show looked like when you got there, uh, and what it looks like now, and how hard it was for you to make the case that, hey, you know, these expenditures that we're asking you to make on lights and sound and stage and you know all this other stuff, it seems like a bad business plan, but it's not. You just have to trust us and give us a little bit of runway to build this thing.

Rob Benedict: 14:46

Yeah. Um and the people will come. It's yeah, field of dreams.

Jason Manns: 14:50

Yeah, and you and Rich being who you are, can make that case.

Rob Benedict: 14:55

Yeah.

Jason Manns: 14:55

Um I I never felt like I could, you know, put my foot down and go, we have to have this, we have to have lights. You know, so when you guys took the reins and were like, you know, make it a show, I was like, ah, somebody's saying it that can actually pull some weight. That's awesome.

Rob Benedict: 15:14

Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, guys, it was a it was a it's you know, it's been a long road of sort of convincing creation, who's they're very much about the the company that does the conventions, they're very much about like, you know, you hire an actor, you you take a s a split of whatever they make, you know, that's that's their business plan. And so when it came that came to the band, you know, I remember early on going like it's like a wedding. Like, you're not you're getting enjoyment from the band. That's what you're paying for. You're paying for them to play their music and you know, and to to combine that with a convention was a weird kind of thing. You just had to go, like, well, I was on the show and I, you know, and I'll I'll get some other actors to come up and play with me, you know. But there was a big so the the very first Saturday night special was more of a variety show, and this is what we finally convinced them to let us do, and it was Loud and Swain playing a few songs, and then Misha came on and did a dog trick with some dog, which was a complete disaster. And uh Ozark Chow came on just by himself. We left the stage, he came on by himself with a guitar and kind of plucked his way through a song. Uh Gil McKinney did a song to a playback. Like the band wasn't on stage, they like pushed play and did a playback, and he was like, did some musical or something. So it was very disjointed, you know. And then and that's honestly where I where Richard and and Mark Shepard really helped me go, guys, like it it this is what it should be. If it could be really be a cohesive, like show concert, you know. And so the the the uh template was always um uh the last waltz with the band who have you know Dylan comes on and does a song, and you know, all these famous people come on to do songs, Van Morrison and on and on. And and and so that was a template of what we were doing, you know.

Jason Manns: 17:02

Um I do think we are uh benefited by the fact that Adam Malin, one of the owners of Creation, is also a musician. Yeah, and you know, he he he got it. I think he understood it from the beginning, but you guys had to prove the the value of it, which you did. Um prove to his partner Gary, you know which you guys did, you know, and now he jams with us on Sunday mornings, which is fun. You know, he gets up and plays guitar and yeah for fun, you know.

Rob Benedict: 17:33

Yeah, totally. But I always credit you, you know, with being uh, you know, the the the first the first one to dive in and and introduce music. And and you have always been so generous about, you're not like hey, that's what I do, you know. You were always super generous about, you know, even that that first tour, you know, which almost didn't happen. This is a kind of a funny story. It was what was it, 2010, 2011?

Jason Manns: 17:58

If that might have been earlier, I don't know, I'm not sure.

Rob Benedict: 18:01

The band was invited to do uh this convention in England, it was super early. There were people at that convention I haven't seen since that convention, like actors. And it was when Wayne did the conventions in uh in in England. And you you'd done a couple, and uh he asked me to come with my I had done I had done a couple as well, and uh, but it was the first time he invited the band, and we arranged a tour that that Wayne kind of produced that tour, and we do like four dates around Europe with you. And the night before we were gonna the the convention was over, they gathered us in this hotel room, and they're like, We haven't sold a lot of tickets, like no one knows who you are, and you know, some of the shows have like 20, maybe 30 tickets sold, like this, you know. Of course, of course, we weren't really advertising it, like it was early, we didn't even know how to you didn't have a social media like you do now. Um and I remember there was a moment where you're in there too. We were like, you know, what do you think, Jason? You're like, I can go if you want to go, I can cancel if you want to cancel. It's up to you, you know.

Jason Manns: 19:05

Sounds like me.

Rob Benedict: 19:06

Yeah. And the band was like, you know what? Let's do it. It'll be an experience. We're going to Germany for the first time. We're going to, you know, uh Austria for the first time. Um and we did it ended up being like super fun. We had a great time. And people bought tickets at the door, so it wasn't so yeah. There were, you know, the the the lowest attended show was maybe 60 people or something. But then we ended in London, and there were like over a hundred people there. We're like, Whoa, this is amazing. Um, so yeah, it wound up being a really cool thing, and we went, Oh, this is something we can do. And so that's when we sort of introduced the idea that like we could tour on the heels of a convention, you know, and that opened the door for for what is now you know, you would always do that. You you always did that, but that was for the to bring bring bands over there, you know. And now that's something that it's that happens a lot.

Jason Manns: 19:56

You know, uh touring with a band, which I love now. Like I love playing uh with a band on stage. Um something I never really did early on in my career.

Rob Benedict: 20:08

Um because it's easy, all you had to do is just you and an acoustic guitar done.

Jason Manns: 20:12

Plug in and play. Sometimes didn't even plug in, you know. Like sometimes that it was such a small venue and there was 30 people in the room. I'd be like, let's just not plug in this time, you know. Um that was back when you were like, well, any of us would have been like, okay, uh, if I sell 20 tickets to a show in Prague, I get to go to Prague.

Rob Benedict: 20:36

Prague, yeah, exactly.

Jason Manns: 20:37

You know, like, yeah, I'm in. Um, nowadays it's harder to make those decisions because you have you know responsibilities and time is pretty precious, so it's it's tough to go. I'm gonna attack four days on and go to three cities I've never been to and make seven dollars. Um a little tough to tougher to justify.

Rob Benedict: 20:58

Yeah, but at that point, you know, it was a it was all like a really good experience. And you know, Loud and Swain has been a band since we formed in maybe '96. You know, we'd been playing a lot, but but we the the most we toured was like we went to Arizona a few times, we went down to San Diego a bunch, went to San Francisco, you know, but we didn't venture far. Um, so this new, you know, the supernatural world kind of uh convention world opened up this idea of touring, you know, and now of course we've played all over the world and really because of supernatural. There were always like for that was always something we you know got early on in the late 90s. We were playing to sometimes we played to an audience of one. I mean, literally the slot we would get would be like 12 30 a.m. at at like uh there's a there was oh, there was like the small room at the House of Blues, which isn't even there anymore off sunset, and they had like three stages.

Jason Manns: 21:56

The foundation room, yeah.

Rob Benedict: 21:58

Yeah, and it held it maybe held 100 people max. It was a small room. And uh we had like Billy's wife and like my buddy Hank, you know. Uh we played 14 below in Santa Monica one time, and that was in the 90s, and it was like Hank and Scott Speedman, and they were like the only ones there. So it was like, you know, we we've come, we really paid our dues and sort of come up, you know. And there was always once I started doing shows that was in TV shows, there would be like fans of the show, actors from the show, you know, that would come. And that was something we had experienced, but never on the level that Supernatural is, you know. I mean, because the supernatural fan base is such a unique thing with they're so uh so supportive, you know. And that from my very first like convention as a person in like 2008 in Chicago, like I remember being so nervous, like I'm gonna bomb. I mean I'm gonna bomb. And it was like that feeling of like going out and do stand-up for the first time. And I come out, and it's like the best audience, like you can say the dumbest thing, and people are like right with you, you know. Yeah, so that's been great for the band.

Jason Manns: 23:02

I like to say that the audience is so good, it makes me think I should do stand-up.

Rob Benedict: 23:08

Totally. I'm hilarious, yeah.

Jason Manns: 23:11

Um, and I remember specifically, I I, you know, similar experience in LA, you know, you I I moved out there from Virginia, started playing, you know, 2002, I guess I was playing um, you know, bars in LA. And sometimes I'd have a great turnout, and sometimes you wouldn't. Um, but one thing that's real specific about LA crowds when you're that age and you're you know promoting to your friends mostly, uh, your extended friend group, you're very thankful that they came, but they came to see each other probably more than they came to see your music. Yeah, yeah, totally. And so you're you're playing what sounds on a recording like a hostile environment. Um, but it's your friends, they're just laughing and joking, carrying on with each other and ordering drinks at the bar, and they'll clap between songs and then turn and keep catching up about what's going on, you know. Um, and that that's that was my experience. I mean, that's music to me, you know. That's just um at the time, that's what a crowd is, you know.

Rob Benedict: 24:27

Yeah, you like music at a party.

Jason Manns: 24:29

Yeah, you know, you you're you're slightly more than background music. Um and they, you know, they paid five bucks to get in. Yeah, so you know, have a good time, you know, talk to friends, catch up with people. I don't care.

Rob Benedict: 24:43

Yeah.

Jason Manns: 24:43

Um and I remember the first time I went to England and played at that convention, probably 2007, I think. Walk out on stage just, you know, I don't know, 800, 900, 1000 people sitting in this enormous room. And I'm there's you know, there's no opener, there's no closer, there's no nothing, you know, there's no announcement, there's not you know, nothing. I just walk out on an empty stage and go, hi, I'm gonna play music for you now.

Rob Benedict: 25:19

Jason, I I wasn't on the show.

Jason Manns: 25:22

Yeah, exactly. Uh you know, I just walked out and and started playing, and I remember at a quiet point in a quiet song. I don't know if it was, I don't know what song it was, but it was something pretty quiet. And I remember, you know, there was a moment where I kind of hold a note and then there's a just a stop, a moment of silence, a breath before you know, you sing. Um, and I held the note and I at the time I still do it aloud, but I was singing with my eyes closed, and I remember singing, holding the note, and then stopping and taking the breath and opening my eyes to make sure that there were still people in the room because it was so quiet. You know what I mean? Like it was you could hear a pin drop. Yeah, and I had literally in my life never experienced that from a crowd. Yeah. Um and of course you finish and it's just uproarious applause and all that kind of stuff, you know? Um, but that that level of of like appreciation for for what you're doing on stage was uh you know a revelation uh for me.

Rob Benedict: 26:32

Yeah, yeah, and you know it's a unique thing too because you know, when we play clubs, um you get people who are music fans. And when you play the convention, you get people, they're all supernatural fans. Um, and there's half of them are music fans as well, and half of them are people that are there because of the show. And we sort of they're sort of like in spite of themselves, going like, oh, this is good music. You know what I mean? They're like music fans, and then there are people that like, I don't really listen to new music anymore. But, you know, and so you have people going like that was that was great, that was good music. You know, they didn't like really didn't think they were gonna that would it would tickle that part of their you know their brain that goes like oh wow, music, you know? It's like because you're not there, you don't think you're gonna be hearing music at a fan convention, you know. Um that's kind of cool.

Jason Manns: 27:23

I feel like that's one of our favorite inside jokes for you know, whenever we play like Quattro Fromagio or uh or you mean Spate or whatever. Um we'll always kind of play a couple songs and we'll nail one, you know, we'll hit a harmony just right or something.

Rob Benedict: 27:41

Yeah.

Jason Manns: 27:42

And at the end of the song, we'll uh we'll always shake each other's hands and go, didn't suck. It wasn't terrible.

Rob Benedict: 27:50

Yeah, that's always nice to tell each other that didn't suck. Uh yeah. I mean, we could we could I could like uh make a picture book of like I've got so many great pictures like throughout the years of like you know since we've been doing this. I mean, Jesus man, it'll be what 20 years that since couldn't possibly be, Rob. Look how young we are since I met you and we started doing this together. I mean, it's just crazy. Um yeah, and 30 years almost that's I've been playing with the band. Like it's just been a crazy journey that I never that I never anticipated, you know.

Jason Manns: 28:25

Don't take this the wrong way. And I all of uh whoever's seeing this for the first time will be shocked to know that I'm 10 years younger than you. Nine actually. Um because we you know we look the same age. But I um I remember when you told me that Loud and Swain had been together for 20 years or 19 years or 17 years or whatever it was, and I just remember going, There's no way you're that old. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, your band is did you guys meet in in elementary school? What? We met in college, and I was like, You've been together 20 years, not even we met after college, but yeah. Now we've been together like 20 years. I know what I mean.

Rob Benedict: 29:17

I know, I know, right? I know, man. I know I've since yeah, I mean, when I met you, I think my daughter Audrey was probably just born, if not not born yet. And now she just starting her freshman year in college. Like it's it's crazy. Um but yeah, no, we we the band, uh I I graduated college in '93 and came right out to LA. And um maybe a year or two later, I met Borja, who Mike Borja, who had gone to grad school at Northwestern, and so he we knew a lot of the same people. And uh yeah, and we started playing together uh just for fun, just like every Tuesday night we'd get together with uh this other guy, Dave, who played guitar. And the three of us would just play covers, and then eventually one person came and was like, Hey, I got this original. What do you think? You know, and then and then that that added on and added on and added on, and then uh And then you were like and then you were like, Let me try to write a song 7,000 songs later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I always enjoyed playing my own stuff more than covers because I I didn't remember covers. Like I just never like around a campfire, I'm always like, I don't know. I I can't I don't know what to play that you all know. I can play one of my own, but no one wants to hear that around a campfire. Like, oh no, this guy, this is an original. You know, people are trying to make their s'mores, but um, yeah, so I always I like playing my own stuff, and uh I like playing my own stuff too.

Jason Manns: 30:44

I love that your reason for not playing the cover stuff is that you can't remember the cover stuff. I for whatever reason remember that easier than playing songs. That's funny, you know. Like the many times that I've been like, did I know the second verse? And they're like, you wrote it.

Rob Benedict: 31:00

I know. Well, look, at this point I don't remember either, but that's why I have my iPad on stage to remind me. Um but yeah, yeah. And then, you know, then the band played for maybe eight years. Uh we said goodbye to our original guitar player, uh, lead guitar player, and we were threesome for a bit, and then we met Billy Moran in like 2005. Um, and then the rest is history in terms of Loud and Swain, you know, that's kind of when we became what we were. Now, did you like early on, did you play with Steve Carlson and did you and Jensen play before Supernatural ever?

Jason Manns: 31:36

Um, we didn't uh yeah, I mean we we would so I moved out to LA in 02, I think. I just you know wanted to do something creative, moved out. I was like 50-50, New York or LA. Kind of actually probably 60-40. I was leaning towards New York, and my older brother uh was like, if you go to LA, I'll go with you. Um and I said, All right, let's go to LA. Um I'd never been there, never visited, didn't knew nothing about it, just jumped on a plane and uh, you know, here we are. Um and when I first got there, I had a buddy from college that that was from there. And so I went and and just kind of met up with him randomly. He's like, hey, I live, I live here now, let's, you know, let's hang out. Um and he ended up recording. We were just jamming, playing songs, playing, you know, like, oh, I wrote this or I, you know, played this. Um, and he ended up recording it and sending it into a like a radio contest. Um, and so they and Ryan Seacrest called me uh live on the air and was like, You're a finalist in this LA B a Star. And it was the first no for um Oh KTLA. KTLA, wow star star 98.7.

Rob Benedict: 32:54

Got it.

Jason Manns: 32:54

Yeah, KTLA was a TV show. Never mind.

Rob Benedict: 32:57

Uh yeah. K K KLOS, no, that was 95.5. Anyway, go ahead.

Jason Manns: 33:03

And uh it was the first year of American Idol, so I didn't know who Ryan Seacrest was. Wow. And and I thought it was a joke, you know. Um, I thought somebody was playing a prank on me. Um, but we eventually figured out that that was not the case. Uh, and I had, you know, become one of the finalists in this show, and they had gotten, I don't know, tens of thousands of entries into the thing. And so that that was like my first few months in LA were kind of consumed by this, you know, thing. Um, and we we were on KTLA, like we played on the morning show, and we, you know, played on sunset, and we did, we went to Vegas and played, you know, at the um, and meanwhile, I'm I don't even play music yet, really. Like, I I sang in college um in a group, but I mean actually playing guitar and singing on stage, like I was very nervous every single time I took a guitar on stage because I just wasn't used to it yet. But for the grand finale or whatever, it got down to like five people, and I was one of them when we we did this big blowout in Vegas. Um, and one of the guys that worked at the radio station was like, Hey, you know, what's your what's your story? Where do you live? What's whatever? Um, and I was like, Well, I'm just moved here from Virginia. I know no one. Uh, you are my new best friend. Congratulations. Uh, and he was like, Well, I'm going to this Christmas party. Do you want to come to this Christmas party, you know, when we get back to LA? And I was like, I sure do. Uh, and it was at Jensen's house. Um the house that he rented with three other actors uh in Hollywood, you know. Um you know, I think he'd done a soap or something by then, but I I mean nothing I had seen. Um, but he had guitars hanging up on the wall. Um, and I was at that time, I was like on the radio a lot, kind of heavy rotation because they were promoting their contests or whatever. And so the guy that worked at the radio station was like, Oh, this is the guy. And so that was kind of the start of our um friendship was music, you know.

Rob Benedict: 35:16

True music. Wow. Yeah.

Jason Manns: 35:19

And it was, you know, he had guitars on the wall, so we ended up playing guitar and jamming, and um, and that was kind of you know, always where it ended up. Like we would go, go to a bar, go to a restaurant, do whatever, you know, big group of guys, you know, when you first get to LA, you've got your your crew, you know. Yeah, yeah. Um, but it always ended up back at somebody's house playing music. Um, if you know, and sometimes it started there and we and we never ended up doing the thing we were gonna do in the first place. We would just kind of sit and jam and um hang out. Um, but yeah, that was uh Jensen, that was Steve Carlson, that was uh Christian Kane, that was um, you know, I don't know if you remember Riley Smith.

Rob Benedict: 36:02

Yep, yep. Life of Riley.

Jason Manns: 36:04

Um, you know, his his bandmates Henry and Jonah. Um, you know, it was just a big, big musical group.

Rob Benedict: 36:13

Actors and musicians, like a lot of actors.

Jason Manns: 36:15

It was like even split. It was like there were four or five actors that ended up being really successful, um, and and four or five musicians who are, I mean, still musicians. You know what I mean? I don't I don't I mean that sounds like a dig on my own career. I don't mean it like that, but I just mean like you say Christian Kane, oh the guy from the, you know, Jensen Accels, oh, a guy from the whatever, you know. Um, and then Riley Smith, oh, a guy from the whatever, you know, and and I don't think any of the musicians ever hit that like household name spot. But yeah, most of us, you know, hit hit a groove and work and and you know, are still playing.

Rob Benedict: 37:00

My mom still thinks you're Jason Moraz every time Jason Moraz comes on. She's like, I saw your buddy Jason.

Jason Manns: 37:05

That's it, exactly.

Rob Benedict: 37:06

And at this point, I just go, Yes, you did.

Jason Manns: 37:08

The funniest part about that is his first song, like his break. Guess what the first radio station to play it was, and guess what time of year it was? And guess what year it was, and guess where he's from? He's from Virginia, that's right, and it was also on Star 98.7. Wow, right in the middle of when that contest was going. And the name of the song is not the only one to make that mistake.

Rob Benedict: 37:35

Wait, what was this name of the song similar to your song?

Jason Manns: 37:38

Um, no, his song, what was his big first the remedy?

Rob Benedict: 37:43

I was never the biggest Jason Moraz scholar.

Jason Manns: 37:47

I think it was the I think it was the remedy.

Rob Benedict: 37:50

Okay.

Jason Manns: 37:50

Um, but anyway, that that was on. Um in the same like during the contest or whatever. So you would hear Jason Manns or it's new song by Jason Moraz.

Rob Benedict: 38:00

Right.

Jason Manns: 38:01

Um so I think I think a lot of people in LA think that Jason Moraz started on the be a star contest on 98.7.

Rob Benedict: 38:11

So who ended up winning that? Did you end up winning it or someone else?

Jason Manns: 38:16

No, I I think I came in second. Uh I think it was pretty close.

Rob Benedict: 38:21

Um But hey, because of that, you met Jensen and it changed the course of your career that way.

Jason Manns: 38:27

And some of the other people in that contest were ended up being big, you know. Um one of the a couple of the other top five folks were in um uh what was the girl's name? Aubrey O'Day. I don't know if you remember her. She was in Danity Kane or something like that, and then had a solo thing. Okay. Um anyway, she was one of the last five. And then the guy that won got a little record deal, but I don't I don't know if he's still playing music or not.

Rob Benedict: 38:56

Wow. Interesting. Well, he's not doing conventions.

Jason Manns: 39:00

I haven't seen him on the circuit.

Rob Benedict: 39:02

Nope.

Jason Manns: 39:02

That's for sure. Nope. I haven't seen him in any of the hotel lobbies.

Rob Benedict: 39:08

Yeah. Well, what a journey, man. What a journey. It's uh that's crazy. I never, you know, I w when when we started it, the the band, I would always tell people like the band is an extracurricular activity for me. You know, and it's it it it it filled that void in in my life, that or that place in my life where I wanted to create things, but not be judged, not be not worried about making money, you know, just like create something where I was in charge and and I didn't have to wait for someone to give me the job. You know, I was just doing it. And so now, you know, the it kind of, you know, I still consider myself an actor first, but you know, the musicianship has really caught up more with what I'm doing, you know, and certainly the lines have gotten more blurred. I I feel like now it's sort of they're all in the same sort of you know, witch's brew that I'm You know, it's um and I don't feel that way anymore, you know, that it's just an extracurricular. I feel like, yeah, I guess I'm an actor and a musician. And, you know, um, and for the longest time I was almost too embarrassed to even say that, you know, and I felt like uh I didn't uh I didn't um I I didn't deserve to be saying that I was a musician. You know what I mean?

Jason Manns: 40:23

Um I get it 100%. I mean I I get it for me. I don't I disagree, obviously for you, but I've I've been in the same spot, so I get it.

Rob Benedict: 40:32

Yeah, yeah. And now I finally am like, yeah, this, you know, this is this is this is what we do, that, you know, all of it. Um it's been interesting. I mean, this whole thing, it's just I never ever could have predicted it that you know it would go this route. And you know, uh blessed that it did, you know, I feel very uh I think you and I both, we don't take it for granted at all. You know, I don't know if people think that maybe we do, but we don't. Um, you know, again also coming up the way that we did, you and I both uh have had our share of knockdowns and struggles through it all, you know, but in spite of it, we never got a big bring, never got a big ticket. I mean, you know, even that is like that's what happens. You're like, hey, you're gonna this is how easy it is, you're gonna make it. Ah, didn't quite make it. You know what I mean? That I mean, that's that's that's my life. I mean, that happens all the time. Um and so all the more reason you're like, wow, you know, you s you sit there, I sit there at Saturday Night Special and and I and I sing she waits and I open my eyes and there's lights, all the lights go in. Like, I'm like, this is amazing, you know. There's no part of me that's like, mm-hmm. You know, I I just it's just the whole thing, the the being being able to being able to be a musician and being able to play with my band and be accepted by this group of of fans of this TV show, um, you know, that I did 20 episodes of, you know, and my band that you never knew before this, you know, it's it's a great feeling. It's a great feeling.

Jason Manns: 42:00

Yeah, 100%. And I, you know, uh a lot of the you know, the framework that I have for touring and and playing shows outside of the convention circuit uh stems from the fact that I was positive that it was going to go away. Um how could it not? You know, like it doesn't make any sense that it wouldn't. Um and so every time I got the opportunity to go play in London, I was looking for an opportunity to parlay that appearance into a good showing at a bar. You know, I was if I can peel, you know, 2% of this crowd off to an independent venue that then sees me as an artist that can bring 60 people, 80 people, 100 people, then they'll take my call. Then then I can come back and play at this bar and you know, work my butt off to try and get people in the door. Um, and I just you know always still to a certain extent um have that mentality of just going, like, I don't I don't want to let an opportunity pass me by. And so I mean it is I am the most shocked that 20 years later um I'm still playing conventions in crazy places, you know, um and still making new fans at conventions uh in crazy places, you know. It's yeah mind-blowing.

Rob Benedict: 43:39

Yeah, and not to mention the friendships too, you know, that we all have with each other and most importantly. And and and all the offshoots that have come from, you know, your your solo work and then my my work in the band, and then and all the then the the this the subgenres that have that have come out of that, you know, uh the station breaks or you know, uh uh Billy and and Paul, you know, um Billy and you and Richard and you know uh Dick Jr. and the volunteers, like all these other sort of sub-bands that have that have come up.

Jason Manns: 44:12

It's uh Quattro Formagio.

Rob Benedict: 44:14

Quattro Formagio, you, me, Richard, and Jensen. Quattro formaggio.

Jason Manns: 44:19

Uh yeah, we we could have uh maybe six names on a on a festival and have about 45 bands there. Yeah, that's true.

Rob Benedict: 44:31

Well, you know, and I was we I have to go pretty soon, but we can end on this. But we're what we one thing that Jason and I really want to do is organize. My dream is to play a festival. I want to play an outdoor festival like Coachella, like a mini coachella. And we have enough bands that we can do that, like with the supernatural world. Get uh, you know, gents into headline, and uh, you know, and then all of us sort of play all day long in our different different group setups, you know.

Jason Manns: 44:59

It'll happen. It'll definitely happen.

Rob Benedict: 45:01

Yeah.

Jason Manns: 45:01

Yeah.

Rob Benedict: 45:02

If we if we can find time between this the conventions, which is not going away, you know, even next year. It's like, oh, we we have some time at the beginning of the year. Like now I hear they're looking at some more.

Jason Manns: 45:12

So yeah, you know, it I'm I can remember more than half a decade ago having conversations with everybody, just going, Well, well, obviously, yeah, we're not gonna do 12 of these next year in 2025.

Rob Benedict: 45:29

No, there's nothing.

Jason Manns: 45:29

You know what I mean? Like in 2020, oh, 2025 will be lucky if we have one. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Rob Benedict: 45:33

Exactly, totally, totally. And now we're already talking about 2027. Like it's like, never mind, next year's booking up. Now they're you know, so which is amazing. It's great.

Jason Manns: 45:43

And it's and every time we we do those shows, you know, you get on stage and you go, hey, who's brand new? Who's never been?

Rob Benedict: 45:50

Yeah.

Jason Manns: 45:50

60% of the room raises their hand. You know, you're like, yeah, crazy. Oh my god, I have a holly jolly Christmas this year.

LA: 46:03

Now for the show's credits.

Berly: 46:06

This season is a co-production between Denim Wrapped Nightmares and In Defense of Fandom.

Sadie Witkowski: 46:12

Cover art for In Defense of Fandom was designed by Liz Hand.

Berly: 46:17

Cover art for Denim Wrapped Nightmares was designed by Rain Zielman.

Sadie Witkowski: 46:22

Music featured in this episode is from the 2014 Jason Mann's album, Christmas with Friends. See links to the music and more in the show notes.

LA: 46:32

If you've enjoyed this collaboration we want to know, send us a message on Instagram or Twitter. We love hearing from you.

Sadie Witkowski: 46:39

And while you're at it, make sure you're subscribed to both shows so you never miss an episode.

Berly: 46:44

Also, a review on Apple Podcasts wouldn't hurt either.

LA: 46:49

See you next episode.

Richard Speight, Jr.: 46:56

I don't know if there'll be snow but have a nice cold beer.