SPN20 Music Extravaganza: Meet your co-hosts

Berly, LA, and In Defense of Fandom's Sadie Witkowski kick off their massive 10-episode collaboration celebrating the 20th anniversary of Supernatural by diving into the show's iconic musical legacy. And yes, they interviewed over 20 people for this series because apparently they're all insane.

The episode opens with a power move: Sadie asking Jared and Jensen about Supernatural's music at a convention panel (using Berly's name callout because Berly is a good friend who understands true J2 fandom priorities). From there, the hosts explore why music became so fundamental to the show's DNA—including Eric Kripke almost quitting over the network wanting to ditch classic rock for "current, exciting, young music."

They discuss fan-favorite needle drops, with Death's entrance to "O Death" taking the crown as most mentioned, followed by the "Renegade" escape in "Night Shifter" and "Rooster" in "Folsom Prison Blues." There's also a moment of silence for all the needle drops lost to streaming music licensing (RIP "Don't Fear the Reaper" in the Faith episode).

The hosts break down the convention music experience—Saturday Night Specials, Louden Swain as the house band, Jason Manns, and the revelation that there's literally music everywhere at these things. LA admits she had no idea conventions even had concerts before attending her first one.

Important PSA: This series features interviews with composers Chris Lennertz and Jay Gruska, musicians inspired by the show, and approximately everyone talented in the Supernatural universe (who was willing to meet with us). Subscribe to both podcasts to hear all the interviews, because yes, you have to follow both feeds. It's free though, so they're really not that evil about it.

The series drops November 11th and runs through the end of the year, featuring professional interviews conducted at reasonable morning hours (tragically not tipsy).

Find and follow In Defense of Fandom at https://www.geekscape.net/in-defense-of-fandom.

Special thanks to Steve Hein, producer of the hit podcast, Supernatural Then and Now, for permission to include part of their conversation with Eric Kripke. Find their full discussion at https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/spotlight-on-eric-kripke/id1605385289?i=1000646839769.

Transcript

Sadie Witkowski : 0:05

I wrote my question down because I didn't want to mess it up. So Supernatural is a show that really is known for its music, both the music in the show. The music in the show, music that's been inspired by the show by other musicians, and now us here at the Collins, having y'all being musicians as well, bringing in other cast members. So I was hoping you could speak to the musical legacy of Supernatural and what that's meant for y'all. Oh well.

Jensen Ackles: 0:37

Good question, Sadie. Um yeah, I think uh from the get-go, there was, and I you probably looked this up, it's probably out there, but I think it was the first page of the pilot script. Yeah, anemic, and you're anemic pop. Um talking about what music you would go in that moment. Um and Eric Kirby was very specific about the tone of the music and the style in which the show was what it was gonna be in the show. Um, and so I think that that that set a tone from the from the hoping page of what this was, and I related to that. I listened to that music uh growing up, I still listen to it today. Um and and I think it was it it really was part of the building blocks of what made the show the show. Um, and I wish we had the budget to have all of the music cues that we wanted because there was so there was a lot written into the script that we couldn't afford. Um, because at the end of the day, like you know, these some some of these really famous songs that we wanted would have been amazing, but they just you know, we we had a budget and we had to keep doing sometimes it was too expensive to buy the songs. So when we did buy songs, and when you heard those needle drops on some of those iconic moments, know that we spent a lot of money on this, it was very important uh to have those, and we would have loved to have had many, many, many more. And I think it it it maybe would have added a little bit of extra uh saucer to an already uh you know, already great project, but uh I think it it definitely uh inspired the show to in ways just knowing what kind of tone it was, and then I think it also inspired a lot of us uh you know, personally to get to to play in that in that realm. I mean, these guys were already playing music before the show started, so that doesn't really count. But I think a lot of us have gotten inspired by what the show has done, by the music, and it has become a definitely a music forward show, and it just so happens that a lot of the folks that walk through the doors of supernatural were multi-talented and could do that. Um, and now we get to now we get to play and you know um on stage in front of you guys and mix it up and express ourselves in different ways. So uh it is it has been a an absolute blessing to have the music of supernatural as part of our world. Yeah.

Sadie Witkowski : 3:30

So that was me in Austin at the Supernatural Convention this past August, where oh my god, Sadie, who were you talking to? Oh my gosh. Uh I was talking to Jared and Jensen at their big end of the weekend panel, and we got lucky enough that Burley's name got called, and we just pretended that I am Burley so that we could ask about music within Supernatural.

Berly Land: 3:53

For those of you wondering why we made that decision, Sadie is a much bigger J2 fan than me, and I'm a good friend.

Sadie Witkowski : 4:01

Yes, yes, you got friend points. You'll get called up next time. So who are we? I guess I can go first. I'm Sadie Witkowski. I am the creator and host of the podcast In Defense of Fandom, which covers all things in the fandish world. I'm Burley.

LA: 4:17

And I'm LA.

Berly Land: 4:19

And we are co-hosts on Denim Wrapped Nightmares, a shit show rewatch, but not really technically a rewatch podcast where we go episode by episode discussing the lore, the gore, and what we adore about supernatural. It's such a great premise. I love it so much. The premise is LA and I have happy hour and talk about the show. Yes. Same thing. Perfect. Which, which for our regular listeners, I have had some listeners message me and be like, oh my gosh, it's gonna be a tipsy collaboration. It's not tipsy. We handled this more professionally this time.

Sadie Witkowski : 4:57

Yeah, I got my black sesame latte. It is not spiked with anything fun.

Berly Land: 5:02

A lot of our interviews were like first thing in the morning. We had one that was like before the sun came up, I swear. So yeah, these weren't tipsy episodes, but they're still informative and a lot of fun. So why don't we talk more about what this is? I was gonna say multiple episodes.

Sadie Witkowski : 5:20

It's a whole freaking mini season, as far as I'm concerned, or a full season, Jesus. So our two shows, our NPR plus Howard Stern combo, is going to be covering the music of Supernatural. And this is everything from music within the show to music inspired by the show to folks who are involved with the show who are now making music of their own.

LA: 5:47

Music was essential to the world building of supernatural. And here's a clip of Eric Kripke talking about that on the podcast Supernatural Then and Now.

Eric Kripke: 5:57

When I got supernatural and I was starting it, I literally said to myself, like, I'm just gonna do the opposite of what I did on Tarzan. And and I did, and I was a I was a pretty turns out I was pretty good showrunner the second at bat because I just I went against all of my natural instincts. So no, it's like you have to be all the things that I was when I was younger, like you can't be at this job, like you can't be afraid of confrontation, you can't be afraid to fight for the thing you believe in, you know, you can't be afraid to protect the thing, you know. Because in the first season of a show, it's like everyone's and when I say everyone, I mean you know, the network primarily, but everyone at the network is scared and they don't know if it's gonna work, and so they're always like stretching and pulling and second guessing. You know, a perfect example of that is that I never would have done earlier, but in season one of the show, the president of the WB at the time hated the music we were putting in the show, hated the classic rock because he's got a show on the on the WB, and and we're putting in like Wallman Brothers and Rush and Fog Hat and Bat Company and Fog Hat, and like he was just like, No way, like we need current, exciting, you know, young music, right? And an earlier me would have been like, okay, I mean, I guess, but I but I was like, Oh, you know, sorry, that it's just I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to quit now. Wow. And they were like, wow, are you they're like, are you quitting over the music choice? I'm like, yeah, it's sort of that important to the tone. Um, and you can only pull that card a couple of times. Wow, and you have to mean it like that it never works as a bluff, right? Uh, and I was young, right? Like I needed a big thing. And they were like, Is this is this maniac gonna walk away from you know his first potential success over the music? And I was it just it because I it it I had a list of what were the important things about that show that I just wasn't willing to cross. And it's like that kind of Western Route 66 vibe, the fact that it would be like genuinely scary, that you know, that certain sense of humor and the music, you know, because that to me is what locked the tone into place, right?

Rob Benedict : 8:20

In so many ways. Yeah, it feels almost like a like, especially the first few seasons, like a pulp book that you picked up or an old, an old comic from another time almost, right? Like it almost exists in the 70s. Yeah, yeah.

Eric Kripke: 8:32

Well, it's like it's like road trip music, right? It's like the time most people listen to clo classic rock is when they're cruising across Utah or something.

Rob Benedict : 8:39

Right, right, right.

Eric Kripke: 8:40

And um, and it just fits it fits the vibe, and yeah, it makes it feel right like a little timeless versus versus if we had like put in death cab for cutie or whatever.

Richard Speight, Jr.: 8:54

A hundred percent. Well, you know, as we go back and watch it, we're like, man, aside from like the flare of the jeans, there's not a lot that dates the show, like you know, clamshell phones to smartphones or microfiche or something, but there's but there's it's not like every episode you're watching, you know, you're not watching something that's jarringly different time time, and I think the music really helped that because it was already old at that point, like that was already timestamped as classic.

Berly Land: 9:20

So, speaking of interviews, LA Sadie and I are fucking insane because we decided to interview 20 plus people for this music special.

Sadie Witkowski : 9:32

Yeah, and there will definitely be names that you know extremely well, and there will be names you've never heard of that you will obsessively start collecting their entire music catalog. I promise I have met both.

Berly Land: 9:43

Or there will be a name that you know, but you had no idea that they had musical talent and were creating music.

Sadie Witkowski : 9:52

It's it's been wild, and it's deeply embarrassing to me that as a supernatural fan, half of these things I had not heard of in some way, shape, or form. Like the fact that there was a crew-based band called the Impalas that would play at rap parties for seasons. How did I not know about this? Why was I not informed?

Berly Land: 10:11

And it featured a saxophone player. Like, we're not talking about just a three-piece band.

Sadie Witkowski : 10:18

Incredible. I love it so much. We found Burley found a recording, which is like blues brothers style. It is so funny. I've been just making my husband rewatch it over and over again. He's like, I get it. There's music. I'm so happy for you.

Berly Land: 10:58

Do you have any thoughts to add yet, LA?

LA: 11:00

I really liked the Rob and Jason interview. Like the two of them going back and forth together and talking about how things got started for them. For yeah, like for at for going like from acting and then into music and and that stuff. So I thought that was uh that was cool to hear how it all got started for them.

Sadie Witkowski : 11:20

It felt very like sitting in the green room and hearing them like, you know, shoot the breeze together and like go back and forth with all these stories that I definitely have not heard before.

Berly Land: 11:31

Right. I like that format where we're having some of our guests actually interview each other. Yeah, because we got lazy. No, we just want to change it up, keep things interesting, keep things interesting. I really enjoyed having some uh artists on the show who have written music inspired by Supernatural. And what cracked me up about those interviews is that in some cases it felt like they were more excited to come on here and talk about the music from the show than they were to talk about their own music that they make.

Sadie Witkowski : 12:06

They were like, let me pull up my favorite clips with these needle drops. They're like, Oh, we we didn't ask for homework, but thank you so much.

Berly Land: 12:14

And I found some new music that I was like, this is fucking good. I like this.

Sadie Witkowski : 12:20

Yeah, and I think that our listeners will be very excited to hear that we do have a playlist of all of the music featured so that you'll be able to uh explore the audio soundscape as we go through this series. It's on Spotify and YouTube music. Perfect. I don't have Apple, so that's okay. I am about to set up my Apple account with my husband, so I'll set that up. Okay. Um, well, speaking, speaking of having all the bands be really into their favorite needle drop moments on the show, do you both have your favorite needle drop moments?

Berly Land: 12:50

Oh my god, Sadie LA, let me tell y'all. I've been posting needle drop moments on social to get people talking about the music as part of the promotion for this fantastical series that we have put together here. And let me tell you, the recommendations that I've been getting are overwhelming. I'm not going to be able to make a video for every single one. And I think people are knowing I'm not going to be able to make a video for every single one because, in addition to commenting it under videos where I'm like, what's your favorite needle drop? I'm now getting DMs where they're like, hey, in case you didn't see my comment, here's a here's another needle drop that I love. And I can tell you guys the ones that got mentioned the most in these little interactions, the top of the list by far mentioned the most was the entrance of the horseman death. I mean, iconic. I think that was one of the first scenes, LA, that when we saw that episode, that you were like, I want to watch it again. Rewind, I want to see that entrance again. It was good. And considering Jensen or Jared wasn't in that scene at all, that says a lot.

Sadie Witkowski : 14:02

Yeah, I feel like that's often one of the biggest intros. And it's for a character that I think is technically only in like under a dozen episodes. Technically, he's so good though.

Berly Land: 14:14

He's so good. And the the music and Phil Segrisha's direction, like it just all came together for an iconic needle drop moment in an iconic scene for an iconic character. Just chef's kiss. I wasn't surprised to see that that was the one mentioned the most. Uh, the one that got mentioned the second most is in the episode Night Shifter, Ronald with the laser eyes, when the fellas are escaping the scene at the end, not getting captured by the FBI. And Renegade by Sticks is the exit anthem there.

LA: 14:54

Is that the one where they're in the SWAT outfits?

Berly Land: 14:56

Yeah.

LA: 14:57

Yeah, that was my favorite.

Berly Land: 14:59

We like them costumes. Because they strip off the masks and they're like looking at each other. Mm-hmm. And then the third one, this one surprised me. I don't know if it's going to surprise either of you, but the third one that got mentioned the most was Rooster. It's at the end of the episode Folsom Prison Blues. Again, they're escaping Henriksen. And Rooster kicks in. I'm blanking on the it's not is it Alice and Chains? I think so. Yes, yes, Alice and Chains, Rooster. That was the third one, which is a great needle drop. Don't get me wrong. I love it. I just wasn't expecting that to be one of the ones that got mentioned so much. I was expecting like Space Oddity from Clap Your Hands, if you believe. Um, Heat of the Moment got mentioned quite a bit from Mystery Spot. I was expecting to see that one more and I didn't. Uh so yeah, it was it was interesting. Are there any needle drops that come to your mind, LA?

LA: 15:57

That one uh where they're leaving the SWAT outfits. I I like distinctly remember that was another one that I wanted to rewind because it was just like perfection.

Berly Land: 16:07

Mm-hmm. And the extended the extended pause there that they took, like they're running up to the car and then they get in it and they wait a minute, give that pause of them like processing what just happened before they take off and that beat drops. Like, yeah. Mm-hmm. It was good. What about you, Sadie?

Sadie Witkowski : 16:24

I mean, I do think mine actually is heat at the moment because it is just like so funny and iconic and reiterated so many ways in that Groundhog Day moment that I was playing, I was, I was playing like a mixed playlist that was supernatural music. And I was going down to this bar for this live comedy show, and my windows were down because it was the summer, and I was like blasting it, and I forgot that I was doing that. And so when I turned off the car, I didn't turn down the radio and I had to give a friend a ride back after the show. And we get in the car and I start the car and it starts blaring heat of the moment, and I started giggling uncontrollably. And my friend was like, I don't understand. This must be a reference that I don't understand.

Berly Land: 17:05

Now, some needle drops that LA and I have gotten to witness because when we decided we were going to do our podcast, I purchased the Blu-ray box set. So there's some needle drops that LA and I have gotten to see, and we've talked about in our episodes, and we've had people come in and be like, what are you talking about? That wasn't in there. And I'm like, I know we didn't make that up, that we didn't just decide to write down the title of a song whenever we were listening to the episode or something. And that's because of music licensing that they weren't able to get some of the songs licensed because music license licensing for streaming didn't exist whenever they got that music licensed originally. Uh, and so don't fear the reaper in the faith episode when the reaper is revealed, the prune face reaper. Yes, they don't look like that again the rest of the show, from what I've seen.

Sadie Witkowski : 17:53

Not not really. Yeah. I well, that really bums me up because I did start watching on Netflix. And when I realized that I was missing the Blue Oyster cult, I was like, no, but I love that song.

Berly Land: 18:03

That would be so cool. It's pretty iconic, too, the way they cut it together and like it's cutting back and forth between the Reaper attacking an innocent jogger and the people in the church, the heel, the faith healer church. It's it's pretty iconic.

Sadie Witkowski : 18:18

I was just thinking, too. I mean, so many of them are very early seasons, too, because another great one was The Gambler by Kenny Rogers and Weekend at Bobby's. Like, what a great song! It's thematically great. They integrate it into the shots really well. Like, there's so many good uses of songs.

Berly Land: 18:35

Honestly, the list is endless. Like I said to the people in the comments, you know, that I did have one filter on denim wrapped nightmares. We're only in season eight, and I haven't seen episodes past where we're at on the podcast in well over three years at this point. So I don't remember stuff. And so there were people naming needle drops that are later in the series. And, you know, don't take offense that I didn't pick y'all's needle drops. Um neater, neater, needle drops. I'm not gonna go look up these scenes that I know I haven't seen yet that would potentially be huge spoilers.

Sadie Witkowski : 19:12

I'm gonna call out two that are not spoilers and I won't describe them, but I will just say Rob singing fairly well, incredible, really excellent. Can't wait for you to get there. And my other really big fave uh favorite one is uh night moves by Bob Seeger. That oh, I like I just want to talk about it so much, but I won't read it for you because I have so many feelings about it, and they're all positive.

Berly Land: 19:34

Fortunately, night moves, it's been mentioned a lot in the comments, but everybody who's mentioned it has just mentioned like night moves in baby. And I know about the baby episode, but we haven't seen it yet. That's all you need to know. The other one that got mentioned a lot that some people have spoiled in the comments, but I already knew about this spoiler. So anybody who did, don't feel bad at all. Um, the rest of you should feel terrible. I'm just kidding. But anyway, the other one that was mentioned quite a bit, I don't remember the season or the episode, but they said uh motorhead God was never on your side.

Sadie Witkowski : 20:07

I won't say anything, but just well, okay, instead of giving you guys spoilers, um, I want to hear about because we also cover this in our series, about the music that we experience at the conventions. Because I think that's actually I've been to a lot of cons. I've been to anime cons, I've been to San Diego Comic Con. I gotta say, supernatural conventions are their own beast in so many ways, and music is a big part of that.

Berly Land: 20:32

I remember LA and my first convention in Dallas, people being like, Are y'all going to the concert? And us being like, What the fuck are they talking about?

LA: 20:41

I I had no idea that even was a part of it. I mean, I had never I've never been to conventions or anything like that, but I mean it was it was overwhelming in general, but then that that was a big surprise to me because I had no idea that was even involved in when you went to the convention, but it makes it fun.

Berly Land: 21:01

I love it. Oh, I was gonna say I remember LA completely zinned out during Jason and Rob's Hallelujah duet. Um I like looked over and her eyes were like closed.

Sadie Witkowski : 21:11

She's like vibing, just vibing. So for those that haven't gone to these conventions, every Saturday night they do a Saturday night special, which is performed primarily by Loud and Swain with all sorts of fun, exciting guests that um rotate depending on the show and the location and many other things. Um, but that's not even all the music they do, right? Because Loud and Swain is also the house band that plays on and off for people's panels. So if they're gonna have uh the demon crowley coming up, then they're gonna play Mr. Crowley. And if they're like um, oh Garth, uh Fitzgerald, I can't think of the actor's name, DJ Quali. DJ DJ.

Berly Land: 21:56

Really? We like we said something about it in one of our episodes, like that he'd like had a cowboy hat on and was like taking off his hat and doing something. And LA and I both went, wait a minute, like he's looking like a model here. And people sent us like facts that he was like a model over in Europe before his acting career took off. You know what though? That totally tracks.

Sadie Witkowski : 22:14

He also has the right kind of build for a model, like like where you're kind of somewhere in between the like classic runway model and also almost androgynous in some looks. Yeah. Interesting.

Berly Land: 22:24

Today I learned hot, hot, but yes, Garth Fitzgerald. Poison. Yes. Although they used to play Garth Brooks, right? But now they know better. Now they know better. That was another needle drop that was just perfection. LA and I got a kick out of that one in that episode, and then it it got played throughout the episode too. And I was like, Yes, I love it so much.

Sadie Witkowski : 22:50

Well, LA, what is your favorite um music element at the conventions? Because you've been to a couple, right? Not just the Dallas ones. Yeah.

LA: 22:57

Um, I mean, I like I always like when they bring out like the different guests because it's always one, it's always a surprise, and I don't know who they are half the time. So Burley has to let me know. But it's insane how talented everybody is. Like it's crazy when you you hear their voices and just the the music. I I don't know. It's it's just not fair for people to be multi-talented like that, you know? Right. It's actually quite rude, actually. Yeah, yeah. It's upsetting, but I love it.

Berly Land: 23:26

Yeah, it's like Ben Edland. You see everything that he does, you see him post like little napkins where he's like, here's a quick doodle that I did. And his doodle is something that I couldn't make in a year if I tried, you know, and then it's like, oh, and he sings too. Oh, okay, okay.

Sadie Witkowski : 23:44

I'm sure he like also like builds insane yard art or something. I'm sure he has like three other talents that we've just never gotten to know about. I'm certain of it.

Berly Land: 23:54

And for those of you, I've seen people sometimes talking about how, oh, this convention's gonna be in my town, it's gonna be in my city. I've never been, I'm scared to go, I don't know about it. Just FYI, Saturday night special is the concert that happens at the conventions. You don't have to have a convention ticket to go to Saturday night special. So if you're nervous about going to your first convention, but you can make it to just the concert, I encourage you to go and kind of see what it's like, see how many people are there, get a sense of the vibe, uh, kind of a sense of the landscape, so to speak, so that you can be more confident about maybe doing the entire convention next time it's in town.

Sadie Witkowski : 24:36

I actually did bring a non-fan friend to the concert because I was in her town and she wanted to hang out. And I was like, what if we did dinner and I paid for a concert? And she's like, sure. Wait, is this a trick? And I was like, the answer is yes, but you're also gonna enjoy, and she really did. We had a great time. And after she's like, Okay, I get it. I get I get what you're saying.

Berly Land: 24:56

It's a good experience, even if you don't do the whole convention. I encourage people to go, and it's one of the few things that you don't need a convention ticket to do.

Sadie Witkowski : 25:05

Yes. Well, and there's also, and so the conventions have Saturday night special. You can also go to spotlight events with um Dick Spade Jr. and Billy Moran talking about their music that they've created. There are also the post concerts, which is so good, which is Billy, Rich, and Jason Manns um just kind of shooting the breeze with you and playing different songs. It's always something new. It's always a great way to ride out the end of that dopamine high of a long weekend. Am I missing any other ones that are specific to the conventions?

Berly Land: 25:42

Did you say the loud and swain jam? Oh, and then what were you gonna say, LA? The karaoke? I don't know if that I think that counts.

Sadie Witkowski : 25:50

Karaoke counts. They do curate those songs, they and they've got themes and and it's structured for sure. Yeah, so then there's karaoke on Friday night, then there's the loud and swain jam, acoustic jam. There's also the vendor room jam that they just play like a couple of songs before they do autographs in the vendor room. Like music is everywhere, right?

Berly Land: 26:10

And the vendor jam isn't usually or isn't always on the schedule. Uh, so just know that it's going to be in the vendor's area room typically on Saturday or Sunday, and typically after the Loud and Swain autographs, or right before. That's when it is, right before the room.

Sadie Witkowski : 26:26

Right before they like play into the vendor's room, play a couple songs, and then sit down to do autographs. Yeah. And like this is all just only within the convention, within a convention ticket. We're not even talking about the Loud and Swain shows, the Dick Junior and the Volunteers shows, the radio company shows that will be maybe on a Monday, maybe on a Thursday, sometimes associated with conventions, which are like also their own beasts.

Berly Land: 26:52

We should probably talk a little bit more about what Loud and Swain is.