Torn and Frayed (8x10)

Berly and LA dive into Season 8, Episode 10 of Supernatural, where poor little Alfie (Samandriel) is getting the torture treatment from Crowley's bow-tied minion Vigo - who the hosts can't figure out the point of since Crowley shows up anyway. Meanwhile, Sam's dealing with the Amelia situation (cue the fisting jokes), Dean and Castiel are having their own bromantic rescue mission, and everyone's making questionable life choices.

The episode features angel screams that make bushes burst into flames, Kevin being sassy on his houseboat, and Castiel carrying around a Sharpie like the prepared angel he is. Things get dark when Naomi's mind control reaches peak creepy dentist vibes, leading to a heartbreaking farewell to Samandriel that has the hosts crying into their drinks.

The Winchester boys finally hash out their jealousy issues (character development!), but not before Dean has to cut ties with Benny, leaving the hosts worried about everyone's mental health. As always, they serve up the perfect blend of supernatural lore, relationship drama analysis, and the kind of commentary that makes you feel like you're gossiping about TV with your best friends over margaritas.

"All tea, no shade. He be weird."

Sources:

• https://supernatural.fandom.com/wiki/Torn_and_Frayed
• https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/true-story-brainwashing-and-how-it-shaped-america-180963400/ 

Transcript

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Berly 0:00

welcome to denim wrapped nightmares tipsy exchange podcast where we explore the supernatural series episode by episode over drinks we'll discuss the lore the gore and what we adore about the winchesters and their adventures i'm burley and i'm a new fan of the series i'm l.a and i'm here along for the ride now let's get tipsy hello l.a hey burley it's our mid-season premiere We have a new review. It just says Amazon customer. They titled it tipsy laughs in every episode. If you can listen to this podcast and not laugh several times, you are in worse shape than Dean on the rack in the bad place. Grab your besties and a bottomless pitcher of margs to enjoy the ladies recap of each episode. While not explicit. Though the boys could wear less clothes and the trickster has a nice tushy, this convo is for the grown-ups. So 18 and over only, please. Thank you to whomever you are. Yes. We also have some comments on Spotify and some other platforms. Samantha, I don't know, I don't remember which episode this was that she commented on. I only screen grabbed it. And honestly, I'm pretty sure it could be more than one episode because I'm pretty sure this has come up more than once on our show. But she said, oh my gosh, the multiplicity reference had me in stitches. I have a feeling it's you going, my peppy.

LA 2:06

My peppy, Steve.

Berly 2:06

My

LA 2:07

peppy. My peppy.

Berly 2:09

Jackie Forr. said you're killing me in this episode i knew you'd enjoy the season of dick but omg burley i am dying that was in our uh i do remember this one it was in our season premiere where i was talking about dick dick's death his iconic dick exploding death and then on a recent episode the mayan one we have from stranger natural They said, good to know y'all found this episode as confusing as I did. I've seen it at least three times and I still don't fully get it. Kind of felt like some stuff had to have been cut that shouldn't have been. Probably to shorten it. I feel seen. I feel seen and heard. Heard, I guess. Not really seen. I was about to say, we haven't done videos. I feel heard. We don't do videos. We're heard. We got a... tumblr post from jinkies would you look at this i like that they listened to our interview with benson messiah they said okay i love this entire podcast burley and la are great and funny and i really enjoy listening to them experience the show for the first time but i had to share this because i fully agree with burley's opinion of avatar No shade to anyone who really enjoys it. Follow your bliss. But I was unimpressed and just felt like it was just another retelling of Dances with Wolves or Fern Gully. And it just didn't really add anything that those versions of what really is the exact same story hadn't already covered. That was an amazing interview. I think it's hilarious that my avatar rant is what you came away with commenting on. Oh, it goes on. Also, I love all the interviews y'all have done. Oh, and I'm super jealous. Although I suck at thinking of questions to ask anyone. But how do you get in touch with people to set those up? Any who love y'all? Well, I'm going to go ahead and plug our Patreon here. We do bonus episodes for our Patreon members where you can submit questions and we will answer them. I was going to say happily answer them, but it depends on the question. True. Or to whoever we're interviewing, since that's what they were questioning, right? Yes, we ask our Patreon members whenever we know for a fact that we've got something scheduled, we've got it in the books, we're going to be interviewing this person, we'll ask our Patreon members, hey, we're going to be talking to this person, do you have any questions you'd like us to ask them? So that's another benefit of joining our Patreon. Next, we have a Reddit post that I stumbled upon. It's from like six months ago, but I'm going to read it to you anyway. This is from Consistent Track 7576. In response to someone asking for podcast recommendations, somebody else had said just Denim Wrapped Nightmares. They just said the name. This person said, I second the person who said Denim Wrapped Nightmares. They're super fun, and their commentary is gold. They're very fair across the board to all the characters. Oh. And it very much feels like talking about the show with a friend during like a wine night. 10 out of 10 recommend.

LA 5:38

Ooh.

Berly 5:39

So thank you for that. Thank you guys for your comments. We appreciate your feedback. On the last episode, it was titled Citizen Fang. Sam asked a hunter named Martin. Oh, like Citizen Kane. Yeah. Oh. He asked him to keep an eye on Benny, track him, keep tabs on him, not kill him. But he did this without telling Dean. However, when Martin tells Sam that there was a vampire kill and he thinks it was Benny who was responsible, Dean defends his friend. Tried and true. True blue friend. Until today. Well, when Martin decides to take things into his own hands, things get messy and Dean was forced to make a very hard decision. Hard.

LA 6:36

Hard.

Berly 6:38

Well, today's episode is called Torn and Frayed. It's the 10th episode of season eight and originally aired on January 16th, 2013. We open up in a warehouse. It's an abandoned warehouse. Just FYI. One of many across the country, apparently. And we see poor little baby Simandriel. Our poor little Alfie is being tortured. Well, not at the moment. At the moment, he's by himself. And he like pushes. It

LA 7:11

looked like a screwdriver.

Berly 7:13

And he pushes this spike out of his head. I thought it

LA 7:16

was like a flathead.

Berly 7:17

That's what it looked like to me. Yeah, that is what it looked like. So it pops out. And then we hear like this. Because he's turning on his angel radio. And he's like, Naomi, I'm captured. Crowley has me. Please send help. And then we hear somebody come in. And it's like this dude in a little bow tie and a jacket. And he's got the lab coat on. He comes in and is like, oh, my little. It's a mandrill. I didn't know he had a name. I just kept in my notes calling him Doc. I didn't know he had a name. Oh, Vigo. No, Crowley did call him Vigo. Now, here's the thing with Vigo, right? Whenever he first comes in and he's doing all this stuff, I was like, oh, I guess they couldn't afford Mark Shepard for this episode. But then Mark Shepard comes in later in the episode. And I was just like, what's the point of this Vigo guy then? Why could it not have been Crowley this entire time? And then at the end, spoiler, whenever the guys show up and they raid it to save Alfie and all of that, and they have Vigo and he's like, wait, I could tell y'all stuff. I was just like, oh, okay. It's going to serve as like a plot device for future episodes. That's why this character is here. But they kill him. So what was the point of Vigo? What was the point of this character?

LA 8:26

I guess he's just doing Crowley's dirty work.

Berly 8:28

But what's the, like, as far as the story goes, what was the point of this character? Like, explain to me, we take this character out and Crowley does everything that Vigo does in this episode, right? It changes, it literally doesn't change the episode at all. Right. Maybe he's a friend of a friend. He had to have been. Yeah. I feel like he had to have been a buddy or something because otherwise I don't understand why this demon was there. It was cute with his little bow tie. Yeah. We have little Dr. Bill Nye, the science guy, coming in and torturing angels. And I liked his hair. So I'm not knocking him. I'm just saying, what was the point of him?

LA 9:06

Yeah.

Berly 9:07

Anyway. Moving on. Oh, Viggo jams the spike back in Alfie's head. I forgot that part. We see Sam in a motel room, stressing. And so LA and I immediately were like, okay, where's Amelia? She's not there. So what happened the night before? Like, did he just run out? We find out later that no, apparently she showed up at the bar and was like, I just needed to know it was you. And she ran out. So weird. But anyway, Sam's by himself. And then we hear a knock at the door and he's like, oh my God. And he's all anticipatory about who's at the door and he goes and opens it and it's Dean. And it was so funny the way he opened the door. It was like, My love. And then Jean was like, who were you expecting? Oh,

LA 9:52

he knows.

Berly 9:52

What the hell? And how would she have known where he was? Did he text her? Was he like, oh, you came into a bar and said you wanted to make sure it was me and you turned around and ran away and I thought that was real hot. Come meet me at room 118 at such and such motel. I'll give you something to run on. That made no sense. It

LA 10:11

didn't, but I liked it.

Berly 10:14

they hash out more about Benny and that what Dean did was shitty and I gotta say after Sam elaborated a little bit okay it was shitty like whenever Sam straight up said I was terrified that what happened to Jessica was happening to Amelia that she like her life was in danger like I was like oh I did not even think about that yeah that every romantic partner he's had so far has essentially ended up dead yikes you know like and but luckily Dean didn't does fess up he does go okay it was shitty I'm sorry we gotta sweep it under the rug I still give him props though which one to help his friend Benny he got his brother out of the way and like the best right and he did not apologize the way he knew was like like tried and true would get him out of the way right right and he didn't apologize for helping Benny but he did apologize for deceiving him about Amelia sure yeah Which is good. Yeah, that's good. And he left him. He was like, you know, do what you need to do here. You need some space. You need some whatever. That is what it is. I'm out. Then we see Cass pop up in a park and heal a little baby. And that mama, she looked so tired. I

LA 11:25

know.

Berly 11:26

She looked so tired. And he like popped in and was like, yeah, baby's been crying for a couple of days. Well, if you've known that, where were you yesterday? Well, I like that he

LA 11:35

said something about the doctors missed this and this, that the baby actually had, which it's like, well, yeah.

Berly 11:41

That makes sense. But also, like I said, where were you yesterday? Yeah, when it just started. Yeah, right? Baby's already been to the doctor, got a diagnosis, and now you show? I mean, the implication here is that Cass has just been flipping around, helping all kinds of people since he left Fred Jones and his peaceful little sanctuary, whatever he is doing. So I love that because that was the main thing he said. He wants to help people. That's why he wanted to be a hunter. So I adored this. Yes. He immediately gets snapped away, and he's in Naomi's clutches again. So Naomi says, oh, my God, Cassie Gale. It's Mandriel. He's captured. Crowley is fucking him up, girl. I need you to go save him. And Cass is like, I'm going to need help. And she's like, take whatever you need. Now, she told him to report back to her on what the Winchesters are doing. Mm-hmm. He hasn't done that that we've seen yet, right? No, but she also told him that he needs to bring Simandriel home. At the end of the episode. And we don't see that. Oh, she tells him bring Simandriel home. Okay, okay. That's his directive. Winchester's sidebar, get Simandriel. Whatever way you need to. And if you need to use those Winchesters to achieve your goal, by all means, go for it. Bring that body back here. Bring me that Alfie. I'm gonna need that. And again... Castiel never remembers it. Yeah, I know. After he sees Naomi and gets zapped back, he just starts acting as if it was his own idea every time. She's not good about consent. I don't appreciate it. No, she's not at all. Not at all. So, of course, Castiel's given a mission. Immediately, he's like, you know what I need? I need Dean. My boy. I need that boy. I need my man. I need my fellow hunter because I'm a hunter now. but I'm not good at talking to people. So I need Dean. Oh my God. I loved that. Okay. I'll wait till you get there. So we cut to Dean. He's made it back to Rufus's cabin. He's sleeping on the couch with a beer passed out. Like it's a teddy bear, right? It doesn't even pan. It just cuts. And there's Castiel just standing there staring at him and it cuts back. He wakes up, he like jerks away. And he's like, I told you before that's creepy. And I'm like, so this is not the first time that he's woken up to Castiel watching him sleep, which I thought was fucking hilarious. And Castiel explains that, you know, Simandriel and I love that teen who's like, wiener on a stick? Aw. That little guy? Alfie. The little innocent Alfie? Oh, my God. We're back there again. Yeah. Castiel's like, okay, I narrowed it down to Hastings, Nebraska, okay? But... that's that's all i've got i don't know what to do with that which means i have to talk with people and i'm not good at that but you are and dean was like okay hang on let me clear this porn off of my internet browser real quick and then we're gonna google away and we're gonna figure this out we're gonna we're gonna do this it'll be fine i like that it was very obvious that it was porn on his computer but when he pulled the the screen back up he just put his hand over it like that helped the situation I like the way he slammed it. He was like, you saw nothing. Yeah, but he opens it up, puts his hand over it, and you could still hear. And I like the way Castiel's like, where's Sam? And Dean's like, no, Sam's not here. Fucking loved that Castiel was determined. Like, no, we need Sam. I know. We need Sam. We've got to get the team back together. Yeah, so they get to work. Let's go. Operation Save Samandriel. Cassiel tells Dean that like weird shit happens when angels get tortured, man, because angels scream. That's when the weird stuff happens. Ripple effect. So we see the scream and the first thing that happens, like they cut to Vigo and Simandriel and Simandriel screaming while he's screwing stuff in, doing all this stuff and like a jar explodes and Vigo seems very excited about it. So I guess this is the first time that they've hurt Alfie enough to where he's screaming, which just breaks my heart because they've had him for what? Didn't Naomi say a week? Yeah. Oh, And we know that Crowley's had him for a while, but I'm guessing this is the first time he's been screaming from pain, which is, oh, my little baby. I hate it. So we see this man walking down the street, and there's this bush. And the bush starts talking to him, and it's like, soy, milk, flan. And he's like, what? And it says, so la di do. He's like, oh, my God. Verbatim. What? And then he leans in really close. And the bush is like, fire up in here. And bursts into flames. And he goes flying up against defense. So luckily, Dan and Castiel find out about this. And they're like, burning bush near Hastings, Nebraska? Yeah. That's our thing. I think that's our thing. I think that's going to get us closer to our boy. Let's go check that out. So they go see him and he's all burned up and they're like, let's make jokes. It'll be funny. And then the guy was like, totally. I'm on the same page as you. I would be laughing my ass off right now, except for the fact that I need a skin graft. Yeah. Too soon. Yeah. Too soon. But he was a good sport. My God. He was. I'd have been like, get the fuck out. Right? Get out. I would have been like, fuck you.

LA 17:04

Yeah.

Berly 17:04

And he lets them know, like, it sounded like Klingon. And they were like, well, what are you saying? He was like, I don't know, soy milk flan, whatever that means. I think it was Vulcan or something. They were just like, oh. Soy milk flan. Oh, I know what that means. It's Enochian. And Castiel said, angel screams, man. That's how it happens. Back at the motel, Amelia shows up. And it's just like, I have that husband at home, and he's okay, I guess. But you? Since you came around? I wake up thinking about you every morning, man. Game changer. Let's fuck. And Sam goes, okay. And we get Sammy without a shirt on. I love that it's like... He's hairy. He had some hairy chance. I do kind of like that it's opposite of what it normally is, where he's in the bed all covered halfway, and she's out saying like, hey... I don't know about this. Is that what she said? Is that what she said? Because that's not what I heard. She's not sure about anything. What I heard her say was, like, I don't love my husband. He's all right, though, so I'll stick with him unless. You mean me here

LA 18:20

in

Berly 18:20

a day?

LA 18:21

Yeah.

Berly 18:22

If you're going to be, like, open to running away, like, let's go. But you can't just keep popping up like this. You can't keep having one fist in me, one fist out. I need to be double fisted. Amelia, I didn't know you had it in you. I did. Or was able to do.

LA 18:42

Ah!

Berly 18:46

Whenever she was like, so? She pissed me off when she was like, did I keep finishing your sentences? Yeah. Hey, bitch, that's called interrupting. How about you just chill out for a second and let the man talk? I feel... What? She is quite the manipulative lady. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like you're sitting there playing house with Dawn, telling him, like, acting happy as can be. But then you sneak off to Sam, who's been gone, doing somewhat well. And I think she even says, you know, you can't have one foot in and one foot out to Sam. And it's like, bitch! She said fist. No, she did not. Okay, stop. But despite your fisting comment...

LA 19:35

I

Berly 19:36

do think she says, like, Sam, you can't have

LA 19:38

one foot. God damn it. I was like. One foot in and one foot out. I could be wrong. Maybe she

Berly 19:47

didn't say this. But I was like, okay, pot. Like, what are you doing? You know, you made your choice. Right? And now you're just trying to pull him back in and then break poor Dawn's heart? Yeah. Not cool. I mean, that's the thing, though. I don't think she made the choice. I think that they fucked up. And when they showed us Sam packing and leaving and being like, Don wanted a chance, that they forgot they showed us. You know what? Here's what happened. Here's what happened. I'm going to fill in the gaps here, all right? He's packing his bag. He's telling her that she needs to give Don another chance and all that other stuff. That's the day that he leaves. But before he leaves, she taps him and is just like, hey, before you go... one more time and so he at the house yeah well they were at the house when he was packing when he was telling her that she i'm sorry i'm getting confused from this episode on the yeah no i'm flashing i'm flashing back i'm sealing i'm sealing the gap between what we saw in citizen vang and what we saw in the season premiere here all right so they hit it one more time fell asleep together and then sam woke up and remembered oh yeah i just told her you should get back together with your husband he deserves another chance and so that's why when he when we see him leaving that's why he's like petting the dog and doesn't so much as talk to her or do anything with her and just leaves okay because he's already told her that it's done that she needs to go give her husband another chance and he's out so I don't think she made a choice I think Sam made the choice for her yeah

LA 21:15

okay yeah

Berly 21:16

all right and with that in mind I understand why she would come running to Sam I don't understand why she would go oh well Sam told me I have to get back together with my husband so I guess I will I don't follow that law check well it's like so okay all right it's too complicated because like he's leaving in the first episode and then there's this episode where they're talking she's like give me a few days and then dawn shows up to the bar and says like oh we'll respect her choice and then we're supposed to believe that sam was just like no you give you give this choice you got to give him a chance like you gave me blah blah now she's like okay well two days from now we decide if we want to be together it's too much what Sam told you to give him a chance and you decided I'm going to have him move into the house that I bought with Sam and we're going to start a new life together. And all it takes is seeing Sam looking in your window to decide none of that. Yeah, let's fuck and then I'll give you two days to decide if we want to come back to this motel room and fuck more and be together. Yeah, forever. I'm going to run away. Okay. Amelia's real stable. Yeah. Listen, we all need therapy. All right. Well, speaking of a stable relationship, Dean and Castiel, they finally find the warehouse where Simandriel is being held. It's another. Well, it's not another, but they've gone to other warehouses. This is the same warehouse from the beginning. Right. So they're sitting there and like, oh, my God, there's guys standing outside and they're losers. And then Cass goes, wait a minute. They're losers with multiple faces. Those are demons. And it's like, what was it, three or four outside?

LA 22:53

And

Berly 22:54

Dean said, oh, well, if there's that many out here, we can bet that there's at least twice as many inside. So we got to hit them with everything we have. And Cass is like, cool, I'll go get Sam. And Dean's like, no, no, you will not go get Sam. We will go talk to Kevin. And I love that they, so they go to Garth's house and I got really excited. I thought we were going to see Garth. I thought they were going to get him to come help them. But no, they're going to Kevin to find out what the recipe is for the demon bomb thing. So I was excited we got to see that again. I did say I wanted to see that again. We got to see it again. So they go to him and they're like, okay, we need the recipe. And Kevin's just like, oh, sass, sass, sass. It's so hard. Get out of here. I'm on Fizzles Foley. I'm on the Fizzles Foley boat and I don't know where Garth is. He comes and goes as he pleases but fizzles foley is my desert okay i am learning the tablet i sent my mom away she's a distraction yeah she's safe it's fine good for you for thinking she's hot dean congratulations But I am busy. And Cass was just like, oh, my God. Just write everything down. Yeah. Give us the ingredients. That's all we're asking for. I'm an angel of the Lord. I will go get those ingredients. Just write them down. Give them to me. And so he goes and gets all the ingredients. And then he gets his own ingredient. Who is it? What is it? He just, like, pops up in a little park bench next to Sam, who's sitting there thinking about, am I a homewrecker? Am I going to be a little homewrecker? And Cass pops in next to him and is like, hey, no, you're not. I have a warehouse that I need you to come wreck instead. So come with me. And Sam goes, okay. So they all go to Fizzles Fully. Dean was not happy to see Sam at first. I know. And then Castiel was like, hey, stow your shit. I will say, Kev, little Kev, you know, he's on this boat. And he, you know, people, you know, they're on the boat. If they've been on the water for a while, they grow out their beards. They get a little scruffy. His was very precisionly done. Did you notice? He had the little very thin line around the mustache and down to the chin and then just the chin up to the sideburns. Well, he just finished his AP classes how long ago? Maybe that's all the hair he can grow. Oh, I'm sure. I'm just saying. But it looked very neat and clean. So good for him. Maybe Garth has been helping him. Garth's like, even though you're on a boat doing research by yourself every day all day. I could totally see Garth. Clean your shit up. I could totally see Garth doing that. Yeah. Like we are on a houseboat, but you should still manscape. Respect yourself. Take care of yourself, Kev. Yeah. I'm not going to have a hobbit in this little houseboat. Yeah. Fizzles fully. Not going to have it. No, we have standards here. I could see it. He's like, I'll be checking. I will see you after my supply run. And that beard thing, kind of, not really that you have going on. It better be pristine. A tiny bit of scruff better be. Cleaned that up. Yeah. While Cass is gone, before he gets back with Sam, I do have to say, Dean takes a call from sweet little Benny. He's like, I come with.

LA 26:05

I come with.

Berly 26:07

I come with. And Dean says, no, you don't come with. I will have to meet you with a coffee later whenever I finish this case. And Benny, he's struggling. And he tells Dean he's struggling. He tells him. Like, he lost his anchor. His... reason for staying clean so to speak right like he's just which he should have done for himself but in general right but he's not there yet he's so lonely he's just lonely well he shouldn't hang out in the park with other people i'm just saying i don't know if he was hanging out in the park with like he was in the park with other people was it for company or was it like stalking i know that's what i'm saying like don't even put yourself in the situation what's he supposed to do stow himself away in his camper live in the woods kill Animals, I guess. He can live in my woods. Oh, okay. I don't know why. I don't have anything to say. Anyway, Benny's just like, I'm really struggling. I really need a friend right now. And Dean's like, oh yeah, I'll meet up with you later. Gonna get coffee. It'll be okay. Well, then we go back to the warehouse. And again, like I said, Crowley comes walking in. And that's when I was just like, what's the point of this guy then? Like, I thought this guy was because they couldn't afford Mark Shepard or he wasn't available or whatever. But nope. Here comes Crowley, and he's just like, oh my god, what is going on here? What are these noises that are happening? Because Viggo's like, flaxseed. He's like, flaxseed, oh man, joy. And Crowley's like, oh, my God, you hit his factory settings. We're going to be able to get some information from him, like secrets, things that he doesn't even know he knows. So after Dean and Sam stow their shit, Sam, Dean and Castiel all go to the factory in his nighttime. And Cass is just like, oh, my gosh, there are sigils and I can't get in there because of them. They're on the north, south, east, west. sides of the building you have to destroy all four before I'll be able to get in there and he pulls out a sharpie Cass just carries a sharpie around I love it who knew and draws the symbol on Sam's palm and he gives Sam his angel blade is Sam Cass's new favorite I mean like he was like he went and got him and he's like drawing on only his hand and gives only him the angel blade and it's like what he seems to really want Sam around he really wants Sam here it was very cute And so he's just like, OK, I'll go take care of that. And then I'll come in and I'll save Sam. And they're like, OK, got it. So they go and they take out the demons outside. And they go in and they sneak around. And it was very cute seeing them work in tandem with each other. I enjoyed this little brotherly scene going and taking out the sigils. Because even when they weren't together, It's like they were still in sync. Even whenever Sam got attacked, Dean was right there, even though he wasn't there. All of a sudden, he's right there to help him. And so they get rid of all of the sigils. Cass comes in. They found where Sam Mandriel is screaming. They can hear him. They're like, Alfie's in there. We got to go. But Cass, all of a sudden, starts getting these flashes. And we didn't get to see any of them for very long. But it looked like Naomi had a dentist drill, but was going in Castiel's face. eyeballs with it like it seemed like it was higher up like it wasn't in his mouth even though he was like it kept showing him screaming and so it's showing his mouth open so maybe i was just seeing stuff wrong but it seemed like when it showed her very briefly from far away that it was higher up but maybe it was in his mouth No, I don't think so. I mean, Castiel looks freaking terrified all of a sudden, just like cowering in the corner. Yeah. Doesn't know what to do. Sam and Dean are just like, what the fuck? So Dean goes, plan B, and just runs into the door as hard as he can. And again, these brothers are in sync at this point. Even though they haven't quite hashed things out yet, I think they kind of have. that they've kind of accepted with each other, that they both kept shit from each other, and yada, yada, yada. Because after Dean runs into the door, Sam was confused for maybe half a second, and then he runs into the door. And then they're just alternating, trying to break the door down. They finally break in to go save Simandriel, but unfortunately, it's too late. Viggo and Crowley have tortured the big secret out of Simandriel. There is an angel tablet. Crowley is very excited about this.

LA 30:41

Oh, yeah. I'm sure.

Berly 30:42

And Naomi, whenever she, like, snaps Castiel up, she, like, tells him, like, if a fucking demon tablet is going to tell them how to seal the gates of hell forever, what do you think an angel tablet's going to tell them how to do? This is bad news. But we aren't there yet. So Sam and Dean, they kill Vigo. So, again, that's why I was just like, what the... I thought he was going to be a plot device for the next episode that he was going to share. Nope, nope. Bye-bye character who could have not been in this episode and it wouldn't have mattered. But your bow tie looked cute. Castiel takes Simandriel outside, like teleports him outside. He was pulling all of them out while Sam and Dean were fighting all the demons off. And he was being so gentle and so kind and like, oh. And you're thinking like, oh, thank goodness he's saving him. And then he takes him outside and And he's just like checking to make sure if he's okay. And then he gets zapped away to Naomi and she's like, kill him.

LA 31:34

Yeah.

Berly 31:35

Get rid of him. What'd she say? That Crowley cracked the codes and he's compromised. It was the lie she told them to tell. But here's my whole thing. Like, why'd you need him dead? Yeah, but doesn't Simandriel also be like, you can't take me back? Oh, yeah, that's right. He knows. I forgot that. I forgot. So Simandriel, Castiel teleports him outside. And that's when Simandriel starts going like, oh, my God, you cannot take me back. That Naomi bitch is up there. She is controlling us. She is controlling everything. Wake the fuck up, Castiel. And that's when Naomi starts telling him to kill him. You're right. You're right. So he was technically compromised because he was now aware of everything that's been happening. Yeah. His brainwashing or whatever is going on. when she's all he should have protected the angel

LA 32:19

tablet

Berly 32:19

yeah I would have she was like I would have died with that information he

LA 32:23

was

Berly 32:24

almost there he was like zonked out like this whatever they had hit with the little screwy things seemed like he was a zombie yeah he wasn't even in control anymore so Ellie and I are really upset about some Andrew guys yeah shitty way for him to go out I liked him I agree I'm very upset we got in Miami we got one episode with him getting to be all cute no adorable in his little wiener hut and like every other time we've seen him he's been bloodied and tortured like i just i'm upset i wanted more i wanted better for samandriel i liked his little character and they could have done a lot more with him in my opinion i agree anyway castiel does it He straight up pulls out his angel blade that he somehow got back from Sam at some point and takes out Simandriel. So Sam and Dean come walking out and are like, what the fuck, man? And he tells them everything that Naomi told them to say. Like he was compromised. He attacked me. It was self-defense, blah, blah, blah. I have to take his body back up to heaven. That's where his remains belong, which Naomi wants his body because she wants to try and figure out exactly what information Crowley got from him. All she knows is the angel type. And while he's lying to Sam and Dean, blood starts running out of his eye and down his face. And one of them noticed. They're like, what the hell is that? Something like that. Do you remember? What was the excuse he gave? I don't remember. Oh, I remember. He said, oh, I must have gotten... My vessel must have gotten damaged whenever we were fighting or whatever. It's like, oh, no. I think they know better. They're thinking, uh-uh. Well, we know they know better, right? Because... This scene happens. Cast takes Simandriel's body. Oh, I'm still upset. And Sam and Dean go immediately back to Rufus's cabin. Angels seal up the whole thing with every sigil that they know. And then they're like, okay, now we're all sealed. He can't hear us. What the fuck was that? Yeah. Let's gossip about Castiel now. And they were both like, that was so weird. And Dean's like, I know. Like, I've been telling you. It's been off since Purgatory. I've fucking been telling you. And Sam's like, yeah, that was some weird-ass shit. Nothing brings people together like talking shit about somebody else, you know? That's terrible. But it's true.

LA 34:44

No, I don't like it.

Berly 34:46

They were like, oh, my God. All tea, no shade. He be weird. Oh, my God. And then Dean goes, you know what? There's enough shit talking, okay? You have a girl. Go get your dick wet, bro. Go get that girl. Yeah, he's like, I can't separate my life from the job like you can. I was so proud of him. Yeah. And he was being so casual about it. I was just like, oh my God, look at him. Character development. Did Naomi get to him too? Did Naomi get to them too? I'm just kidding. She like got Dean and was like, quit. Quit hiding your shit. Yeah, Dean, like, straight up tells Sam, I think I was jealous. Like, I couldn't separate the shit like you can. Yeah. But you can. Big of him. Good. And then he tells Sam, he tells her, he tells him the same thing that Amelia did. He was like, but seriously, bro, both fists are no fist at all. Maybe I'm thinking that Dean said that, not Amelia. The one foot in, one foot out. Either way, whatever. She's in the raw. But Sam was just like, I don't want a double fist. Yeah. I'm going to no low fist. I'm going to stand her up. I'm not going to text her and tell her, hey, I'm not coming. She's not going to go. Yeah, he's like, I'm sticking with you, bro. I'm going to go make some chili. And Dean was just like, you know what? While you're making that chili, I have to let down somebody really quick. So hang on, I gotta go make a call. He calls Benny and is like, hey, I know you're in a really tough spot, but end of the line. And Benny was just like, cool. I guess I'll talk to you later. And I was just like, okay, I understand the parallel they were trying to draw here, but it is not the same. Amelia's gonna be fine. Whether she chooses to stay with her husband Is it a perfect relationship? No. But like she said, she's content. I'm sure he's content. If she stays in that marriage or if she like nuts up and leaves that marriage, whatever decision she chooses to make from here, she's going to be fine. Yeah. She just needs to go talk to a therapist for a little bit. She will be fine. I don't feel like Benny's going to be fine. No. His only support systems have all been ripped out from underneath him in the past two episodes. I don't think he's long for us. No, I don't think so either. I'm really worried that they're going to have to hunt down Benny in the next, like, episode or two, that he's going to end up breaking and, like, killing people and that hunters are going to go after him or something. Like, I don't think Benny is long for us anymore. Yeah. And that sucks. I'm really upset. I'm not happy right now. We've lost some mandrill, and there's foreshadowing that we're going to lose Benny. I'm just like...

LA 37:31

All

Berly 37:32

right, season eight. You could have at least made the bow-tied guy mean something. Ugh. Jesus. Just saying. Anyway, the episode ends with Amelia showing up at the hotel room because of course she was willing to leave her husband. And Sam's not there and brings chili and a beer to Dean and they just sit down and watch TV. They're watching some boxing match or something. Back to business as usual. Codependency, bruh. Oh, yeah. This episode was written by Jenny Klein and directed by Robert Singer. Robert Singer, I'm not noting of any... amazing shots or anything visually jumping out at me, are you? Not

LA 38:13

that I can

Berly 38:14

think of. Not that I'm recollecting. It was a good episode. Yeah. And like, it's setting us up, right? Like now we've got the demon tablet. Here's my whole thing. Are they going to close the gates of hell or are we jumping from the demon tablet to the angel tablet now? Like what the dueling tablets are going to fight. The tablets are going to fight. Oh, that's going to be good. It's going to be hard. Which one do we close? Which one to keep open? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. They're going to shut it all down. Did you... There was no gore. Well, Simandriel's torture, but I wouldn't even call that gore necessarily. It was just uncomfortable and sad.

LA 38:46

Yeah.

Berly 38:47

Did you endure? Whoa. Did you adore anything about this episode? I adore that we're getting some closure to the end of these flashbacks. Yeah, I think we're actually done now. I think we're actually done now. We thought we were done as soon as the husband was back in the picture, but... Yeah, I think we're done. I'm adoring finally getting there. You ready to be done with that? What about you? I mean, it was good to see Sam, Samandriel again, but like also at the same time, not, you know what I mean? I would love to say that I liked the little bow tie character guy, but he just confused me. Yeah. I'm still interested about this Naomi character. Me too. Like, I feel like she's going to be a big bad or something. And like, as much as I'm glad the boys are back together, it's just... I feel like they've squashed it all, though. I feel like they're good. I feel like the fact that Dean has confessed that he was a little bit jealous. I mean, unfortunately, the fact that Dean is cutting Benny out of his life now, that's going to... Yeah, they're both cutting out huge people that were in their lives when each of them were out of each other's lives. I mean, Sam's makes more sense to me than Dean's. With Dean's, I just feel like, why don't you just invite Sam to go get a beer with Benny?

LA 40:00

Yeah.

Berly 40:01

Like, why don't the three of you... Coffee? It has to be coffee? Okay. Why don't you just invite Sam with you to go get the middle-of-the-country coffee with Benny and let Sam actually get to know Benny?

LA 40:12

Yeah.

Berly 40:13

Like, ask Sam. If you would just ask Sam if you'll be open to getting to know him a little bit, let's go do this. Knowing Sam, he's gonna be, especially since you just did this whole big confessing that you're jealous and da-da-da-da-da thing. He would have agreed. Yeah. He would have agreed! Maybe not the best time when he's struggling, but... Well, right. Go there, meet him, get him back on... track and then but you know what maybe him struggling would be a good time for sam to meet benny because he would see that benny was actually trying well how much he doesn't want to do it exactly yeah he's fine okay yeah you're right i could see sam's a bleeding heart i could see sam seeing that seeing that he was struggling think back to the episode with gordon where it's not tara her name was tara and buffy the vampires like lenore wasn't it lenore the vegan vampire sam loved those vegan vampires benny's trying to be a Yeah. Give Sam a chance. I am convinced Sam was only being pissy because you were being pissy first, Dean. And now that Dean's finally let it go and isn't being pissy anymore, I feel like Sam would have done the same thing. I mean, maybe he would have been a little mad about Martin still, but Sam knows what happened in Albuquerque. What more would he have needed from Martin, you know? He knows. What about the lore? Okay. Well, for lore, we're talking about brainwashing. Oh, wait. First, I have a little bit of lore. Oh. A smidge. A smidge. I went ahead and Googled it because we've been talking about Simandriel and that good semen, right? Oh,

LA 41:51

that's right.

Berly 41:52

So I did go ahead and Google it, and bad news, guys. I was wrong. It was not Simandriel with that good semen. It was the archangel Samael. Okay. Well, that's understandable that they're confusing. Thank you. Yeah. I still think it was funny that we thought it was Simandriel with the good semen, and he was the Wiener Hut guy. Yeah, I mean, come on. R.I.P. Simandriel. I still think. Oh, baby. Okay, take us into the lore. All right, well, the origins of the concept were from the 1950s, and the term brainwashing was popularized by Edward Hunter, who translated the Mandarin... Z now? Now? Sorry. Sorry. I apologize, as always, about my pronunciation. You should have researched like I did, because my Enochian pronunciations were perfect. Get out of here. So, zinao now is wash brain to describe alleged... Chinese communist techniques, Hunter later revealed to be a CIA propaganda agent, portrayed it as a mystical oriental practice that could turn people into living puppets or human robots. Now the concept gained traction during the Korean War when American POWs made shocking confessions. Colonel Frank Schwalbe and others falsely confessed to using germ warfare 5,000 of the 7,200 POWs either petitioned to end the war or signed confessions. 21 American soldiers refused repatriation. This sparked widespread American fears about communist mind control techniques. Communist fear, Beck. man it was real what researchers actually found when psychiatrists like robert j lifton studied returning pows they discovered the soldiers had actually been tortured through forced standing food and sleep deprivation deprivation solitary confinement repeated exposure to propaganda Popular culture embraced the brainwashing fantasy after this through movies like The Manchurian Candidate and books by pop psychologists. Aided by behaviorist theories suggesting minds could be easily reprogrammed.

LA 44:18

Now, of

Berly 44:19

course, the U.S. military concluded the soldiers were weak rather than brainwashed, leading to the creation of the SERE program using torture techniques and training. CIA's Project MKUltra, which went on from 1953 to 1960s, illegal experiments with LSD, sensory deprivation, and electric shock on unwitting subjects. Eventually, these same techniques were used in interrogations at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Guantanamo Bay. There you go. Guantanamo Bay. I could not say it. As scholar Timothy Mele notes, brainwashing began as CIA propaganda fiction, became so convincing that the CIA believed it themselves, leading to real programs that ultimately became the basis for actual torture techniques. The term persists today, particularly in discussions of ISIS radicalization, terrorist recruitment of young people, though mostly used more casually or facetiously. So basically, when we get down to

LA 45:37

it,

Berly 45:37

the concept serves to explain behaviors we find otherwise incomprehensible. Why would anybody become a communist? What appeared to be mysterious mind control was actually brutal, straightforward torture and coercion. The brainwashing myth became so powerful it influenced real policy and led to actual human rights violations. And while Hollywood-style hypnotic brainwashing remains fictional, scholars warn that terms like brainwashing and radicalization can be lazy explanations that avoid deeper inquiry into individual circumstances and motivations. True, perfect brainwashing remains in the realm of science fiction, but the fear of it has had very real and often harmful consequences in American policy and practice. This was actually just like a summary of like all the topics and bullet points of a very long summary that was very interesting. And I actually, I would have read it all, but it would have been so long. The link is in the show notes. It was from the Smithsonian Magazine. And, yeah, it was fucking long, y'all.

LA 46:42

Oh,

Berly 46:42

my God. So we had to bullet point it out. But those are the main points from the article. If you're interested in reading more about it, though, check that link in the show notes. All right, a quote to close it out. It's from Dean Winchester. Whenever Castiel first popped up to ask him for some help, Dean said, So who snatched Heaven's most adorable angel? Stop it. Aw. Cheers. Cheers. Thank you for listening to Denim Wrapped Nightmares. Follow us on Twitter or Instagram, leave a review, and let us know how we can get involved in the fandom. This was fun. Jerk. It always is, bitch.