Denim-wrapped Nightmares, a Supernatural podcast
Join SPN family newcomers, Berly and LA, as they explore the TV series, Supernatural, episode by episode. Over drinks, they'll discuss lore, gore, and what they adore about the Winchesters and their adventures.
As a way to keep in touch during the 2020 pandemic, Berly and LA started podcasting with their debut, anything-goes talk show, The Tipsy Exchange. During those discussions, Berly and LA realized that they most enjoy talking humorously about TV/Film, mythology, suspense, and hot guys. Supernatural seemed a natural fit. It's a match made in heaven... or hell... you decide!
Now, let's get tipsy! CW/TW for violent and lewd commentary; listeners beware! 🔞
Denim-wrapped Nightmares, a Supernatural podcast
The Man Who Would Be King (6x20)
Berly and LA recap the season six Supernatural episode, The Man Who Would Be King. Over drinks, they'll discuss lore, gore, and what they adore about the Winchesters and their adventures. Now, let's get tipsy! CW/TW for violent and lewd commentary; listeners beware! 🔞
Summary: In this conversation, Berly and LA analyze Castiel's character evolution, focusing on his interactions with God, the Winchesters, and Crowley. They highlight his internal struggle and questioning of his intentions, as well as his increased self-awareness. Meanwhile, Cass and Crowley discuss their plan to gain power in Purgatory by collecting souls, with implications for the apocalypse. The speakers also delve into the concept of multiple heavens across various cultures and traditions, including Judaism, Zoroastrianism, and Supernatural, and explore how these belief systems intersect in modern fandom.
Resources:
- https://supernatural.fandom.com/wiki/The_Man_Who_Would_Be_King
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_heavens
- https://www.compellingtruth.org/seven-heavens.html
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!
Please rate and review Denim-Wrapped Nightmares wherever you get your podcasts! Find social channels and more on our Linktree.
Automated transcription and summary via Otter.ai.
Welcome to denim wrapped nightmares tipsy exchange Podcast where we explore the supernatural series episode by episode.
LA:over drinks, we'll discuss the lore of gore and what we adore about the Winchesters and their adventures.
Berly:I'm burly, and I'm a new fan of the series. I'm
LA:LA, and I'm here along for the ride. Now let's get tipsy.
Berly:Hello, la. Hey, Burley. Last episode was titled Mommy dearest. And it was a banger. There was a lot going on in that one. Sam, Dean, Bobby and Cassio tracked Eve to a small town in Oregon. There they discovered that all the town's people were being converted into these weird monster hybrid things that they decided to name Jefferson starships. There was a big revelation that happened to this one, Eve let the boys know Crowley was still alive and hurting her babies. So she was pissed. And that's why she was trying to turn everybody because she was gonna make everybody monsters so that neither heaven nor hell got any of the souls Sam and Dean defeat Eve. It's revealed that Crowley and Cassiel had been working together the entire time to try and get all these souls. Oh, and they do kill that perfected little Jefferson Starship. But it wasn't Sam or Dana who did it. It was
LA:a diva. Yeah.
Berly:So it's just it was a lot. Yeah. Like a lot was revealed last episode. And today's episode kind of tied up the loose ends I
LA:feel Yeah, yeah, I think so too. Yeah. As we know, I have to take notes. And this episode's real dialogue heavy, very dialogue heavy Charlie's gonna have to help me out.
Berly:It was like a monologue. Yeah, that was illustrated with sidebars, so to speak. So yeah, it was interesting.
LA:Oh, I liked it. But it was just for me taking notes. Just I always take note of where they are like women's scene changes. So it's focused on that. And then he's, they're talking so much, I can't even get right. Like some of the good lines or whatever out.
Berly:There were a few I know, I know. Let me let me help you out. This episode is titled The Man Who Would Be King, the 20th episode of season six and originally aired on May 6 2011. You know what? What was about to just sort this out. I was about to say. They should have killed Eve on Mother's Day. Mother's Day up. Oh, oh, I just saw May and like we just
LA:got the show. It would have been fitting. All right.
Unknown:I think I think this would be a good point for you to take the reins again.
LA:Well, this one starts out with cast and he's sitting it looks like a wooded area at first. Yeah, it was really pretty. You think he's kind of talking to himself, but it ends up he's talking to God. But he's basically this whole episode telling us his story. He starts out with some memories of back in time and, and history of the world and things that happened. But then he goes into I mean, I guess basically explaining his reasoning behind working with Crowley and doing what he's been doing and working on.
Berly:Yes. Like he's talking a lot about what he's learned from the Winchesters. And I
LA:thought that part was really sweet when he really was told me know how to stand up for myself and what to fight for what's right. I wrote that I think they helped him be more human.
Berly:Fuck, man. Nothing's more human than doubting yourself. Yeah. So this really demonstrated just how human he's become that he's made these decisions with good intentions, really. I mean, for the most part, and he's even reflecting on that and asking, Did I have good intentions? Was it ego? Was it pride? Was it naivety like? This the most human we've seen? Castiel it's
LA:a big internal struggle throughout the whole episode. But yeah, so it starts with him. And then it shows Dean in the car driving and he pops in without letting him know.
Berly:I was like, It's date night. Yeah.
LA:But, uh, right from the bat, I will say I thought even in the car Dean was a little weird. For the theory I came up with later but oh,
Berly:I was gonna say he's feeling weird because he knows he's lying to him. Right, right.
LA:He didn't know that at that point. I thought we did. Dean in the car. Wait, oh, you mean, just kind of like playing it off like, Oh, yeah. I'll
Berly:say oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah. Like he was lying to correct. He knows he doesn't suspect Castile, but he knows Sam and Bobby do. Yeah. So he's trying to act like everything's cool. And throw cash DL off. Right, you know, so it was a little awkward. Yeah.
LA:And but Cass is also fishing to make sure what they know what's going on.
Berly:He's acting like oh, I don't know I can't find Crowley I don't just
LA:don't know how he would have been able to trick me. Yeah. Little shit. Well, then it goes to Crowley is doing an autopsy on Eve. I mean her skull is cracked open brain exposed. He's pulling out guts that look like little tiny balls of something in there. So they were eggs. Oh, that's right. Yeah, the
Berly:brain was dead. But she continued to lay eggs. It looks like fish eggs or something? Yeah.
LA:And cashews.
Unknown:How gross would it have been if he ate one? Whoa. Caviar.
LA:Cat shows up while he's doing this autopsy and Crowley. Real proud of himself shows. He's like, check out what I've discovered. And it's I guess it's some sort of little teaser stick thing.
Berly:It's like a metal rod. Yeah. Be like held it over fire. Oh, I didn't see that part. Yeah, he like held it over a flame before he went over and jab didn't even spray.
LA:Yeah. And then he has like one of her cronies, kid. Child,
Berly:whatever. Count Chocula. Did he? I guess it was a vampire?
LA:Yeah. Oh, yeah. He had this the teeth but he reacts when he stabs her brain. So they're all connected to Eve. Miss Eve. Probably got a kick out of it. Yeah. And so they have a little conversation where Crowley's saying that. Cass has some conflicting interests in wanting to be helping with Crowley but then also protecting the Winchesters.
Berly:He told Castile he had the stench of that Impala all over his trench coat or something. I was like, oh,
LA:and I think that's then after that conversation is when cast is explaining how they helped him and everything. And trying to justify why he still feels the need to be their friend, Guardian, whatever how he feels.
Berly:I think there was some dialogue. What is it whenever it's over? Like it's not the dialogue in the scene, but we're hearing cast talk about something. What is that has a name? Voiceover Yeah. VoiceOver. So there's some voiceover where cast is actually talking about how Carly's right that he is conflicted. Because he does still picture himself as the guardian of the Winchester. Yeah. So he still wants to protect Sam and Dean. He wants to keep them alive. He wants to keep them safe. All while he's doing these other things that he shouldn't be prioritizing, but every time Sam routine call, he's still running. Sorry, I got it. I gotta go do this. I gotta go help them. So he straight up admits in a voiceover not to Crowley space, but in a voiceover that Crowley was right that he was he was conflicted between the two priorities.
LA:And we also learned that Cass is the one that pulled Sam out. Oh, yeah. But in his arrogance, he made the mistake of forgetting his soul.
Berly:I like to think cleared up that that was a mistake, because they do question later. You know, Sam, at the end, when they're confronting him asks, like, did you do it on purpose to be a better hunter, you know, and Cass is like, no, and so I like that. We know that we he says that very clearly that that was not an intention. Yeah. Crowley
LA:was worried about the boys coming for him as he should be. Because that was exactly what
Berly:they were closing in on him. Yeah. But cast
LA:tries to reassure Crowley that you know, that's not gonna happen. They're not gonna get to him. Then we're at Bobby's, and they have this demon, chained to the chair under the devil's trap. questioning him about Crowley's whereabouts. sticking a knife and is by twisting it. The
Berly:demon knife at that. Oh, yeah. Which had me questioning I always thought when Bobby stabbed himself with the demon knife, and it killed the demon. I thought he stabbed himself in the thigh. I can't remember. I can't either. I mean, I guess when he stabbed him, it was closer to the kneecap. So maybe there's like a radius. A radius in which if you stab the demon vessel, it will kill the demon. And maybe the closer up the thigh you go. That's close.
LA:I don't know.
Berly:Yeah, whatever. He stabbed that in there. I was like, Why did you just kill them? Because you were interrogating him. But it didn't kill the demon. So I was confused for a second because I was like, I thought that's how Bobby kill the demon. When he had a demon in him and he got control the vessel for a little bit. But yeah, it doesn't matter. The demon ends
LA:up telling them that he doesn't know where Crowley is. He doesn't deal directly with Crowley. It's
Berly:what did he call him dispatcher,
LA:the dispatcher, which is funny, because when it flashes to show who the dispatcher is, he is like another bobby type.
Berly:They said that they said if Bobby Singer was a demon, this is who it would be. Yeah, this guy named Ellsworth.
LA:He's dressed like he's got all the phones lined up on his desk he's answering as an FBI agent. He's got
Berly:all the little blood cauldrons on there, because he's taking the demon calls to
LA:Yeah, yeah, he's a busy guy. Oh, I'm going a little out of order. But cash shows up and takes out the two demons that we're dealing with the dispatcher as well as the dispatcher so that the boys can't get to Crowley through that, because that's where they were headed.
Berly:That was very traumatic. Yes, I was good, though. It was good. Yeah, he like comes in and grabs those two demons right by the head and like, slams them down and like a superhero pose and spikes them at the same was pretty cool. It was pretty cool.
LA:And then he shoved the smoke back into the dispatcher. Yeah,
Berly:well, he tried to smoke out and castles like, Ah, I like the after he smited the dispatcher he like wiped his hand on his
LA:like you will cast is a sneaky little snake in this one because he's dropping Bobby Dean and Sam are all chit chatting about casts lying, maybe lying about everything. And cast is there. But he doesn't reveal Himself to them. So he's hearing the entire conversation of them discussing his deceit.
Berly:Oh my gosh, you got to do you know, it just dawned on me what? Okay, do you remember how whenever Sam called cast after he got his soul, and cast tried to go and give Sam a great big hug. And Sam was just like, No. And we were like, Okay, that was awkward. But I just realized why he did it. Why he was probably spying on them when Sam woke up and came upstairs with a soul. And what's the first thing Sam did with Dean and Bobby? Great big ol bear hugs. So cast saw that. And then when Sam called him he was like my turn. And Sam said no. Oh, that makes it all the more worse. Yeah. Rejection. It's a bit. Okay, but back to Cass eavesdropping on Sam, Dean and Bobby. That's just my headcanon I have no idea that just that's, that's what happened in my head is that cast saw that and then thought like, Okay, now it's my turn for my big reunion hug. And he didn't get it.
LA:So yeah, he's, uh, he's eavesdropping on the guys. And then he talks about how after he pulled Sam out, he returned to heaven. And we he says, not every heavens the same each person creates their own heaven. And he chose this autistic guy that died in a bathtub in the 60s or something. Yeah, it
Berly:was very sad. I mean, it's beautiful to heaven was beautiful. And he was flying a kite just peaceful is could be it was gorgeous. Haven't but yeah, the story of who's having this was I was like, oh, that's yeah.
LA:Well, while he's there, a bunch of other angels come to him. And he starts to explain to them that you can have freedom. Rachel
Berly:was there. Right Rachel is back. This was when Rachel was still Yeah.
LA:And she and the others around her asking him what they're supposed to do. What is God want us to do? And Cass tells them that God wants them to have freedom. And then what did he say explaining freedom to angels is like
Berly:I think he said try to teach a fish poetry right Right. Right. So
LA:yeah, they were confused. Didn't get it. So after he leaves Rachel and the angels he goes to see Raphael Raphael just chillin having a cocktail. Hey,
Berly:isn't kin lays heaven. And Ron, and
LA:Raphael wants cast his allegiance. He wants to start with this by freeing Michael and Lucifer cast doesn't want any part of it. But Raphael blast casts back to heaven and kind of he goes with him back into heaven and tells him tomorrow you'll kneel or you die, and anyone who's with you will die. He
Berly:kicks his ass. But the other thing that Raphael does is He's declaring himself the new god. Ray says that we're going to jump back up the apocalypse because it's God's will and Cass was like how could you possibly know that and Raphael straight up said because it's what I want. So he's literally like, I'm God now. Yeah, so guess how your hierarchy wise? Maybe that wasn't the most illogical conclusion to jump to but he is definitely very SAS very arrogant. Oh yeah. You know I'm in charge and this is what I want it's not just that we want it to be over now like I don't want free Well, I want to be in charge I want to destroy all the humans now it's my way my way or the highway Yeah. Yeah, Catholic. He flashed him back to cast his favorite heaven and casts was like coughing up all this blood. Oh, yeah. Like we didn't see the fight. I guess it was like a Angel Grace fight or something because was the bright light like you said Whatever it was, he kicked CASAS asked me
LA:to while he's eavesdropping, they call him they call on him. So then he shows himself, but he also gives himself away in this entire conversation. I forget what he says. But it's something he heard when he was listening to them not in a conversation he had with them.
Berly:Right. So when he was eavesdropping on them in the kitchen at Bobby's house, they were comparing cast to Superman and being like, how would we defeat Superman and said something about finding his kryptonite, if he was in cahoots with Crowley, you know, and whenever they are in the demons cabin, you skipped that part. Sam Dean Bobby tracked the demons to the dispatcher's cabin, but it was spotless not a demon not a speck of dust that's what I was going for was gonna be like dust a speck and I was like that's not right. speck of dust whatever so they're in that little cabin and that's when they call for help because they've hit a dead end. Oh no, they got attacked by demons that yeah, cash showed up. More demons showed up to kill them. Crowley sent his best hitmen via cash showed up and saved them and since he saved them, Bobby and Sam are like, okay, we're crazy. We thought you were working with Crowley clearly you're not and that's when Cass said the whole Superman kryptonite thing
LA:well it's it's makes it even worse because they're all apologizing the cast for thinking that when it is case Yeah,
Berly:literally gives it away in the same. I swear you could see Dean's heartbreak. I know like hey, just as soon as he said that Superman kryptonite line. Dane was just like, yeah. Or he said Superman and I think Dean was like, yeah, something kryptonite. And you could just see it on his face that he he knew he knew that they were actually right. Oh, he's still held on hope a little bit later, though. He did.
LA:Oh, well, Cass goes to confront Crowley for attacking the Winchesters and Crowley goes after him. Kind of. He's just antagonizing Cass any anytime you can. Just saying that. Oh, your little Winchester steal by the good cast guy that you think you are and cast threatens him if he touches the boys. That he'll help us? I guess we'll take him out. I don't know if that's possible. Because he says Raphael's stronger too strong for him. I don't know about Crowley. Yeah,
Berly:if Crowley had enough souls that he had to he could give casts alone and souls are power. I don't understand why angels are still more powerful than demons because that that was something that was said in the in the conversation. You're right. Crowley was threatening him. But then Cass said I am still an angel. And that was a threat back. So I guess even though Crowley is the King of Hell, and has all the souls he's still not as powerful as an angel for whatever reason. Yeah.
LA:Okay. And then there's another flashback. So after cast leaves are no no, I'm sorry that after Raphael kicked his ass, he goes to the dean course. He was just watching him.
Berly:While he was he originally went to Dean for more help. But then while he was watching Dean living his fake playing house life and wasn't in danger. He said he couldn't bring himself to ask more of Dean. So he's feeling Whoa, he's feeling vulnerable. He's feeling sad. And so of course, Crowley pops up. Oh, yeah. In this flashback. And that's when we see that this whole thing was Crowley's idea. Like you in order to defeat rafail. You need power in order to get power. You need souls. Where can we find souls purgatory? Let's you and me work together to make this happen. And we'll split the souls 5050. Right. I did like the tour of hell, that Crowley gave Castile while they were having their little discussion.
LA:Yeah. It's just a fucking line.
Unknown:That popped up. You were just like, that would be my Yes, I got it.
Berly:But the picture of Crowley hanging on the wall in the military outfit, we couldn't figure out which military aisle it was. But I know it wasn't good. Yeah,
LA:no, definitely not.
Berly:It was a great picture, though.
LA:So yeah, they decide on that deal. And I think doesn't currently offer just for good measure for you to trust me. I'll go ahead and just offer up 50 souls. Yeah, he
Berly:gives them a quick loan so that he can go and kick off the Civil War, so to speak, right. So Castile, we don't see him agree. But we do see in a flashback that he goes to heaven and does the same thing to Raphael that Raphael did to him does the light bright thing and tells everybody left in the room? You're either with him or you're with me. That's how we know he accepted the deal. Yeah.
LA:And so then we go back to the guys and they're Colin Cass up again. Yeah,
Berly:back to the present time. Yeah. What I didn't realize when we were watching how much I mean, either, but now that you're talking like it did, it did quite a bit. Yeah.
LA:They're kind of hyped up when cash shows up. They're excited. They're telling him they have a way to track down Crowley, of course castles. Oh, sure. Yeah. And I think it's Bobby that ends up lighting the
Berly:fire. Right Dean is telling them what's going on pouring a glass of whiskey Sam is on the opposite side of the cabin with like his little book out acting like he's referring to something that's going to help. So Cass comes walking forward to see what, what Sam is referring to. And Bobby is the one that's like you like, you're what's gonna help us catch up and drops the matches. It was nice. It was I liked the choreography of the scene. Yeah,
LA:it was cool. And then dean comes up at him and is telling him looked me in the eye looked me in the eye. Yeah, and told me you're not working with Crowley cast start saying that he thought he just felt like what he was doing was protecting them. And that he really needs the souls to defeat Raphael. He reveals to Sam that he pulled him up and like you said that's when Sam asks if he did it on purpose, leaving a soul behind. I
Berly:hated that. He looked at almost hurt whenever Sam asked him that, but Sam's just like what the fuck else am I like? I can't blame Sam for thinking yeah, you know,
LA:and Dean tells CASS You know that this isn't how we do things we handle shit. We don't go and make another deal with the devil. Which, as you pointed out,
Berly:pointed out every single like every single one of you in that room made a deal. D and made a deal with Azazel Bobby made a deal with Crowley Sam made a deal with Lucifer like literally every single one of you in that room have made a deal with the demons so maybe pull pull back on the judgment. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, he's just one of the team now.
LA:During this whole exchange casts realizes that demons are credited this way to this house and tells the guys they're coming. You need to get out of here. And it's little Oh Crowley that shows up. He's not little and
Berly:don't forget whenever they all leave, Dean Dean does that look back? Oh, oh, yeah, cast that dramatic. Look back before he leaves, leaves Casio there. Oh, and it was also very dramatic. Whenever Dean was saying, like, just tell us what you need, and we'll fix it. And Cassie out very dramatically was like, Dean, it's not broken. Oh, yeah.
LA:For me, it's
Berly:solidified. Okay. Even though this whole episode is him questioning whether or not he's making the right choice. He's still adamant that he's moving forward with this plan. Yeah. So I guess that's gonna be the rest of the season. Yeah. Which is interesting to be so doubtful about what if what you're doing is the right thing and yet, so determined to continue. Kind of makes you question what, what are his real motivations at this point, right. You know,
LA:well, lucky for him, Crowley shows up and puts out his ring of fire around him. And Crowley tells cast you know, I know, the problem is, is I know what I am. What are you? Who are you? He uh, he asked him what he is and what he's what he's willing to do. Cast. I mean, I don't think Casserly answers him at all. That was my point. Yeah, he doesn't even know. And so he's back in a room with Dean at Bobby's, and Cass is trying to try to talk to Dean and telling him he just wants him to understand where he's coming from in all of this. And Cass tells him that he's doing this for Dean. They make apologies to each other for, you know, deceiving each other, I guess. This whole episode. Yeah. And then cast was back in heaven. And he's talking to God and asking for a sign. He needs a sign. What are you supposed to do? I need some guidance. That's That's it.
Berly:It was oh, it was written by Ben Edlund, and it was directed by Ben Edlund. I wonder if this is his first episode. To direct. His first was supernatural. That's for sure. That it that also can help explain why like even though it was super dialogue heavy it flowed really well. I mean, the episode Yeah, was paced. Well, I wonder if that had something to do with the fact that it was directed by a writer. Curious about that. Did you adore anything in this episode?
LA:I mean, I guess I liked the switch up of the style of it, with cast getting to tell his story and everything
Berly:that fourth wall break at the very beginning when he looked right into the screen right into the camera and was like, I'm going to share my side now. Yeah, I like that they came back and filled in all the gaps. So they essentially started at the beginning of the season and showed us everything from CAST yells point of view, so that we could kind of follow all the reasons we were confused. We're, like answered during this episode, like the big revelation was last episode, but all those loose ends, all those blank gaps got filled in this episode. And you know what, they didn't have to do that. Right. Appreciate that. They did. Because now we're going into the finale, the last two episodes, knowing who the quote unquote bad guy is. But again, we have this empathetic villain, that I think most people understand where cast is coming from. Yeah, they did all All this work to stop the apocalypse and now rafail just wants to come in and snap a finger and undo it fuck, you know, I mean, but the road to hell is paved in good intentions, right? So now it's becoming this thing of, I think what started out, have a very good intention of continuing to save the world continuing to save the Winchesters is turning into a Do you just want to be God? Because here, Dean is begging you to work with him to try and figure out another way. And you don't want to do it. And your solution is power. So is that that's where it's like, becoming this inner conflict thing? And I feel like this episode illustrated that perfectly. And I don't know which way it's gonna fall. Yeah. Is he going to press forward with his plan? Is something going to happen before the end of the season where the plan gets thrown off and doesn't happen like it did at the end of season five? I don't know what either no Gore, really to talk about I can't think of anything gory. No. All right. Well, we'll go into the lore, I decided to research the idea of multiple heavens, because they said that every soul has its own isolated, individual heaven. I liked that because then they were able to use everyday scenes to represent heaven. You know, each of these angels were borrowing little heavens for their meetings, or for whatever I thought that was interesting. According to Wikipedia, and mythological or religious cosmology, the seven heavens refer to seven levels or divisions of the heavens. The concept also found in the ancient Mesopotamian religions. Yes, no, isn't that weird, can be found in Judaism and Islam. The Christian bible does not mention seven levels of heaven, some of these traditions, including Jainism, am I saying that right, also have a concept of seven Earths or seven underworlds, both with the metaphysical realms of deities, and with observed celestial bodies, such as the classical planets and fixed stars, beliefs and the plurality of the heavens were not restricted to the belief in seven heavens. Ancient Near Eastern cosmology later accepted the existence of three heavens, in Jewish cause that and Jewish cosmologies. I'll be it absent from the Hebrew Bible, the number of Heavens could range from three to 365 with seven being the most popular figure. So that's what I found whenever I Googled like multiple heavens, individual heavens, whatever I just kept coming across the seventh heaven things said, Didn't that guy end up being like a really bad guy? That dad, the actor? I think so. Oh, my God. I never watched that show really, though. So I don't even know who that was. Anyway, so I decided to run with the seven heavens thing. And that took me to an article on compelling truth.org titled, where does the idea of seven heavens come from? Is the idea of a seventh heaven biblical. There was a lot of information on this website. So I just decided to chop it down to a couple of things for us to kind of do a little bit of a deep dive into first Judaism's seven heavens. The Hebrew word for heaven is only ever plural. different traditions have different numbers of heavens, the Jewish mystical texts, the Sohar claims there are 390 Heavens and 70,000 worlds. as science progresses, the understanding of the set the seven heavens is becoming less literal and more allegorical as a description of how God interacts with his creation. Mystical Judaism says followers can make their way through the heavens if they pass certain tests and know the names of the guardian angels. At each level, the mystic is allowed to receive particular wisdom. Some Jewish scholars say Paul's trip to the third heaven is an example. Legend says when Moses went to St. Sanai God opened up all of the heavens and let the Israelites see in the characteristics of the seven heavens vary with source and have been discussed by rabbis of the Talmud for ages. The apocryphal book of Enoch apocryphal book to Enoch, written perhaps shortly before the fall of the temple, and ad 70 gives a great amount of detail, but the book can't be a true account, since it was written nearly 4000 years after the biblical Enoch was taken by God. The story may have been adapted from Zoar asterisms. Yeah,
LA:right. Sorry. Zoroastrian
Berly:Zoroastrianism Yeah, there we go. Original lay two Enoch mentioned seven heavens it was later changed to 10, possibly by the Eastern Orthodox Church in the seventh century. What each of the heavens contain or represent vary depending with the teller. The story claims that Enoch walked the heavens with the angels returned to Earth until this family then was taken to heaven again, the heavens he visited war. One violin says in parentheses curtain, a curtain which is rolled over the Earth at nighttime to block the sun contains the atmosphere minor stars snow and due to the abode of Adam and Eve is governed by Gabriel, and called curtain or veil because veils or hides the other six levels. It's represented by the moon. Next, I don't want to try to pronounce that. So I'm just going to tell you what it says in the parentheses which is expanse or canopy. This possibly refers to the frozen canopy over the earth before the flood, Moses visited paradise here to receive the 10 commandments. Fallen Angels are imprisoned here for marrying human women. Dwelling Place of souls awaiting judgment, including men of renowned apostates, tyrants, called expanse because it's where the sun and planets dwell. This is represented by Mercury. Next up, we've got clouds, Eden and tree of life the mill that produces mana, Mana Mana Mana Mahna also includes paradise and hell or Hades, I thought that was interesting that hell or Hades is in heaven. So I don't know if this just means after lives or what that it's represented by Venus. Next, we've got habitation, which is the stratosphere, sun, moon and four great stars, including celestial mechanics, dwelling of the winds called habitation because it's where the New Jerusalem with its temple is, and it's represented by the sun. Next, we've got refuge, which is home to Grigorii fallen angels who mourn for their brothers, Michael or possibly Sam il presides. And it's filled with ministering angels who sing by night, called refuge because it's where most of the angels reside, and it's represented by Mars. Next, we've got city or established place, which is home for angels in charge of nature's cycles and good governing systems of the world. Angels who write men's actions and two books that's governed by Sam il a dark servant of God. You have that good semen. Remember, from that lore, have a good Archangel seaman. I think they all they probably all do. No, no. Yeah, yeah. Storage of place, moving on storage place of rain, snow and hail. It's called City because it's where the City of Angels that maybe Oh city resides represented by Jupiter. I know we're almost done. Next we've got deserts, also known as the 10th, heaven, throne of glory and God dwell here, as well as unborn human souls. Sarafem Cherubim. I said that right through them, justice, righteousness, souls of the righteous and ineffable light. It's called desert because it has no moisture and no air. God also said to be above the seventh heaven, and it's represented by a Saturn. It's possible that today's the it's possible that Judaism's belief and multiple heavens could have been influenced by Zoroastrianism, but it's unclear how Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism, or if it was the other way around, Jews taken to Babylon in exile who did not return to Jerusalem, Jerusalem would have been exposed to Zoroastrian laymen. It's possible Judaism got the idea for multiple heavens at this time. In fact, the word paradise one of the many words used to reflect heaven comes from the Persian for enclosed park or garden, Judaism might have been influenced by the ancient Babylonian tales. Perhaps Abraham brought the mythology with him from or the parallel affiliation with celestial bodies, indicates a closer relation to Babylonian stories than Zoroastrian. The article talks about a lot of other heavens. I also have Dante on here because we love we love Dante, but it's actually pretty similar and doesn't add a whole lot more context. So I'll leave that for those of you who are interested to go find at the links in our show notes. Alright,
LA:a quote to close it out. It is from Castile to Crowley, and Castiel says, Don't worry about the Winchesters. And Crowley says,
Berly:Don't worry about what like Lucifer didn't worry. Or Michael or Lilith, or Alistair or Azazel didn't worry. Am I the only game piece on the board who doesn't underestimate those denim robbed
Unknown:nightmares? Cheers.
Berly:Thank you for listening to denim wrapped nightmares.
LA:Follow us on Twitter or Instagram, leave a review and let us know how we can get involved in the fandom. This
Berly:was fun. Sure, and
LA:only this bitch
